From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 19:59:38 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83sfk6ahty.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8p1aiof.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <87v8p01lbu.fsf@yahoo.com> <83lepwvzxq.fsf@gnu.org> <871qroyog9.fsf@yahoo.com> <837d1gvt35.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfk3yl10.fsf@yahoo.com> <87o7uqtlsl.fsf@yahoo.com> <878rlu48kq.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0zmrzcx.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mZnfOge5InIiJtHT" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38908"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 05 20:13:16 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1og8tP-0009vJ-Cg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 20:13:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1og8tO-0005d5-Bv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 14:13:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1og8gK-000337-Jd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 13:59:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:34076) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1og8gI-0002Qz-Bb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 13:59:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ne7FJDQPzNBMy8uSMvDMv26MaIxKvnJOmsI0/BRQ4N4=; b=QatpjA0XcnwDZCLNrPig2nZqmK 87Ll3aZRTx7t5hCyVxQN6a5jST7DZ7McGeKQahy6sPZjOpGTsV32CdX2TLEv46UPdW3/N/OLCm2pG jxMgJoxHL6bOeLirP/l0lqK8cDCXLy8l4gZ68uwUgPkPg3902pfDaDLApVAyJExWki4wb5jvMIgxn H9yz9PNMqaShUJl9d730HH/8JmyGA+9mUkrUbjOMxommP2ABrj5+GqIl+PvjpeJ7KXWL67No4fuS9 zdyCB6+2BlWWrCTid/pLoH04LYGZS4vpd1VUtzAgFOUuELpAPidojUS3Iwxsn/xdje/94unUFMhB1 hzXg/dAg==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1og8gE-0004Rs-7P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2022 19:59:38 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r0zmrzcx.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296998 Archived-At: --mZnfOge5InIiJtHT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 05, 2022 at 07:47:58PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , spwhitton@spwhitton.name, > > rlb@defaultvalue.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, david@tethera.net, > > emacs-devel@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org > > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2022 17:02:45 +0200 > >=20 > > Po Lu writes: > >=20 > > > That makes the fans less loud (they are still noticable), but it also > > > takes twice as long for the fans to subside, as expected. > > > > > > Hope this data point ends up meaningful. > >=20 > > Yes. > >=20 > > Software is distributed pre-compiled for a reason -- because people run > > the software on hardware where compiling the software takes a long time. > > It's entirely reasonable for people to want to have a fully-built > > native-compiled Emacs installation on their laptops, without making that > > Emacs do any further JIT compilation. (Except where necessary for > > trampolines, of course.) >=20 > Why would people want to have N files compiled, but not the N+1st > file? How are the first N files different from the N+1st? Perhaps because 1500 <=3D N <=3D 2000 (or so) and the N+1st ist just one? Perhaps because in the "normal case", the N+1st won't even happen? The idea of a Debian package is to provide a baseline for those just interested in using that software (with an easy ramp to upgrade to actually hack at the sources and build a modified version). I actually install a few packages from source, those I "personally" care about (Emacs is among them), But I couldn't possibly do it for the > 2000 currently installed on my system. The (Debian) packager's job is to make sure all that stuff works nicely (and as repeatably as possible) together, and still receive the necessary security fixes. Perhaps it would make sense for the Debian Emacs packagers (Rob?) to state their requirements in some more abstract way and work =66rom there. As far as I understand, the wishes are: (a) deliver a package with (all? as many as possible? most? .eln pre-compiled (b) build Emacs in a way that is idempotent (and doesn't change overall system state (c) perhaps run tests (possibly, ideally part of b) Did I forget anything? Cheers --=20 tom=C3=A1s >=20 > > This has been requested a number of times over several years now, but > > these requests have been ignored because apparently "people shouldn't > > want that". >=20 > That's an incorrect and unfair accusation, so please stop. >=20 >=20 --mZnfOge5InIiJtHT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYz3GAwAKCRAFyCz1etHa Ro+GAJ0fzvBxaZjDbbZhYUYsEH/X3i1bbQCfV6lDSPeWWEnK/ZWsl0YyhM+HHps= =Lkyl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mZnfOge5InIiJtHT--