From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Consistent theme across the desktop [Re: Abysmal state of GTK build] Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 06:44:50 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87mtbxlnf1.fsf@gnus.org> <87czctk890.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a67xlm9v.fsf@gnus.org> <87k070g6l0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8635do4u9b.fsf@gmail.com> <877d30g1az.fsf@yahoo.com> <86y1vg3a31.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1vgeho7.fsf@yahoo.com> <86h723esba.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CAWdyxncbNwXhDmT" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4909"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 06:46:10 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQLnl-00016T-UR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 06:46:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35896 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQLnk-0007vD-V5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:46:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQLmc-00078X-K2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:44:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:34116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQLma-0003Np-Hn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 00:44:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=nvGXN7//6TGB3Ctfngu9cJFexVQ69EjHHJ9yhkzmUB8=; b=vRVDuIDuSbAQEtgBWrT0D6K8Dk BISqcknV19Dw93yBC1i/jHS9LcGw1UiWWF0KywxCfNgUAxiVzHOff/f06wRU4oECZoOEV5wIniC6F XmAMG6gs9KXlaQ6qhdx/Vt+s9VdCEsz7mZ54xJFKYIIkUo6rbritlKc9E2dVduFHMQQxgd4sFKWw8 DJ7nuJu9xabMB0MOeyMNrRjHFDvI/Th/NlhznI/Kd/DwcDLU50lc9lHrRwaJdhvgHy+hFV+hCCfon nH3NMPabKJoOUmskhQIUaGhz74M3JV4mC15udPH7zgrj05djwKDAgCfhcWOXsWdDgekjOpczyOE8b 8uiPDYMA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1oQLmU-0003DQ-Mc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 06:44:50 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86h723esba.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293849 Archived-At: --CAWdyxncbNwXhDmT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 09:19:26AM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: [...] > but they lose the ability to easily adopt a consistent theme across > their desktop - something which for whatever reason appears to work now > and will not once you change to either no toolkit or lucid. Just a little point on this: while abstractly desirable, the trend seems to be in the other direction: One strong evidence is application-side decorations. Yes, the toolkit is supposed to take care of that. But the temptation for application developers is enormous to "know better" here and there. Currently I have the "pleasure" of working with Windows for a first time in a long while, and the situation is dire. Some applications (typically "old" ones, like the terminal) need a click to get focus, that first click doesn't do anything else. Other applications do something on the first click right away (the browser selects the URL if you happen to click on the right place; some browser "apps" do even much more -- one chat app I "have to use" puts you in some answer mode). The "close" button on the browser's faux window decorations disappears when you make the window too narrow (is it that what they call "responsive design"?). We have reached the point where some random javascript off the 'net can and does override GUI conventions, and the trend will grow stronger with time. The economy of the net is one of attention, and apps are bound to compete with each other on this metric, too. The worse part of it: people don't care. They adapt. Seems to be a kind of Stockholm syndrome. I won't go deeper into that, since I'm semi off topic already, but I find that deeply disturbing, as if app developers were intentionally messing with user's brains. Back to topic: yes, consistency across the desktop is desirable, but to be taken with a grain of salt. Relevant actors don't seem to care. Cheers --=20 t --CAWdyxncbNwXhDmT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYwRbPAAKCRAFyCz1etHa RrMpAJ9KbofFn0JNHS9xcO5f2Rt1XV1uUwCffj9tpKSkV4RxpIhce0Vo8qurhZs= =mESA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CAWdyxncbNwXhDmT--