From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 08:43:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87wnde1rqh.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6aa2oty.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmj63qs0.fsf@gmail.com> <87h74h79ba.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1xtnr08.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dOgtc28oyiEg8T0E" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15554"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 19 08:44:41 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o2ofo-0003qv-RC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 08:44:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50856 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2ofn-0006R6-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 02:44:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2oeT-0005EY-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 02:43:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:60238) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2oeR-00054w-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 02:43:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=AHj3acHMjkGREa72a43m8Pt1Bj2Bcu9gWNzhTkAtoDE=; b=nZo9GMkD6Fuz9RkQBdEYQK7vQy 7hHzgpU6Po3uDxcp1hfmm7cl+DprVZVSKuNiqd/B8ESBo7dZ5AJHMEzggi9CbWH6e8+kifLLv+md9 XSiiwd2Oe5ZvcO5oqOoBY24Ou8F6WoJKQF5jriCC/WembianKIIucETjpKHJXiz1qv85HBZiYwxcz N8FajYxl4qzDJ8KQvGEpe56XfzPkrhNsmH0qDUMV3vcd+HnJxa7XegL9cXr8YGfxumt6Uf0osUsqq Wbr9hL8YRSBx4lbOa8Cl19vLgCRnYvWOt8ci3gwg79tKEkdYN8cm+0mCmm4QuU5BatOqpTGHFGpUm mRfMrU1w==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o2oeO-0003BV-Ut; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 08:43:12 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87y1xtnr08.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291407 Archived-At: --dOgtc28oyiEg8T0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 03:36:43PM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: [...] > I think you missed my point. For the record, I was not implying "Just > use org". I didn't intend to convey that. I was just inviting to squint a bit and to realise that the org side arguments are as valid as those for any other markup. I think we are touching a fundamental problem: either you have a sufficiently unequivocal markup as to be machine readable, then it automatically becomes somewhat heavy-handed, or you accept that the machine has to apply some sort of mushy heuristics to try to extract part of the markup. And don't get me started on the "semantic" part (watch the Texinfo branch of this thread :). The one's semantic is the other's syntax. Semantics is like an onion: once you peel off all layers, you are left with... nothing. My point is rater that we'll possibly have to accept that to some, even seasoned Emacs users, Org might be too heavy handed, and the mitigations you propose might be of no help. This shouldn't preclude us of exploring what is in-between. But we need a very open mind, and if Po Lu, Alan, Drew et al say "it feels jarring" we better take it seriously instead of saying "nah, you'll get used to it" (I'm exaggerating a bit, I know). Would I like a unified markup to have for Texinfo, docstrings, quick notes, comments? Sure. Would I like for it to be machine readable? You bet. Would I like for it to be easy on the eyes, even as raw text? No less. Would I like for it to have links my Emacs can automatically follow? Yes, please. Would I like for it to be extensible, so I can come up with an "this is a FOO span"? Exactly. But with that wishlist, it could well be ony Alan Perlis's lollipop will do. Still worth a try :-) Cheers --=20 t --dOgtc28oyiEg8T0E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYq7FegAKCRAFyCz1etHa RiksAJ9ZP9MUhLb273E66vnYzeT8+dqUEQCeMhTBGKtGRy1miw/Zwc3lyAHyZGE= =LviU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dOgtc28oyiEg8T0E--