From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 06:35:37 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87v8szrfz6.fsf@localhost> <83ilozpzce.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnde1rqh.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6aa2oty.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmj63qs0.fsf@gmail.com> <87h74h79ba.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hpQ+fV89dDsOvskX" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2471"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 19 06:37:39 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o2mgs-0000RB-2a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 06:37:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51190 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2mgq-0006td-AM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 00:37:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2mfM-000682-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 00:36:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:49166) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2mf7-0003wN-BL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 00:35:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BWvylGDitkIyg1RX8MWEEiF3cK5/rf0YH2D2d54evG8=; b=Ikdpn08WOD43iW1eD8BHBInPGp M0DX/3GOX7X1stwy3Yv54J+Y7+4kWQFl3pV1UC3+tohA4tio8mE15sc6fiwlBR38E4vLSxSbtF0qp woVgJe2p8d6oVKDHkfzqoaLHniQLRE8Xj16f4wQaeHCaB7Sq00jkYbm2VH9bmu/1kNbGlYQ83nhAp lDDWndwMyAn0ukfMgWxkBRbwqYN/IZF0l7HDovtVgwwk+uGftwMLJz1+/jPPQRdoC3l5lQGgPwY2S c+ZQL9wt0LjL8ITE9zCHitcliISy4RHw26KX7DwgPRJh3gUNphonM3qivIJYJvwPcDMHuE8ObvYp2 n874OPKA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o2mev-0002qR-J7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 06:35:37 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h74h79ba.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291397 Archived-At: --hpQ+fV89dDsOvskX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 10:24:10AM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: >=20 > Drew Adams writes: >=20 > >> > I find it jarring when people throw in the very verbose org format > >> > for source blocks. > >>=20 > >> How would you delimit a source block? > > > > Dunno what OP had in mind, but if, as for > > the context of my comment, there's no need > > to delimit it, then, well ... no need to > > delimit it. > > > > Maybe it's a habit. Dunno. >=20 > I suspect there are likely a number of contributing factors, including=20 [good insights] > I still think the worst thing that ever happened to email was moving > away from plain text and allowing HTML. Unfortunately, HTML has now > become so ubiquitous in email, people now see plain text as 'old' or > 'primitive'. There is also the issue that most people tend to use > proportional fonts these days, so the old days of being able to create OK > formatted tabular data in plain text are gone - you need HTML now.=20 Definitely. > As to the verbosity or jarring nature of #+begin_src/#+end_src as > delimiters - I really just don't notice them. I guess that after years > of reading config files and using programming languages with too much > boiler plate code, I've developed the skill to easily ignore such > trivial constructs.=20 But that's the point. To some people, obviously, #+begin_foo is at least as jarring as HTML markup seems to us (I'm not talking about sick Microsoft markup, where 3/4 of the file is fonts and CSS, that's even worse. I'm talking about somewhat "readable" HTML, some renderers try to do this). > Of course, if your using emacs, it is reasonably trivial to make them > less intrusive with various font locking techniques. If your not using > Emacs for your email, well I guess that is what happens when you use an > inferior solutions ;-) If you are using emacs and haven't bothered doing > anything to reduce the jarring nature, I guess it isn't that bad an itch > after all. I think here we are at the core of the conflict. "Well, duh, use Emacs" (and implicitly: "use Org mode") is akin to "well, duh, use a browser". As fond as I am of Org myself (I admitted in this thread to writing it by hand without mode support), I think expecting people to follow suit is bound to create this conflict. No, to me, Org markup isn't jarring. But I can perfectly well relate to this feeling. I think, at this point it would be much wiser to take a step back and think about a solution instead of just repeating "but Org is better" :-) Cheers --=20 t > =20 >=20 >=20 --hpQ+fV89dDsOvskX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYq6nkgAKCRAFyCz1etHa Rq3RAJ45DyvvavVymCUf61BNdbovy3TM8gCfZ8QcnMf6gixqchz2zT//InJOL0Q= =H0Ln -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hpQ+fV89dDsOvskX--