From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2022 17:27:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37862"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Tassilo Horn , Akib Azmain Turja , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 04 19:28:18 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nxXZS-0009gG-1d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2022 19:28:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36694 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nxXZQ-0007Zo-Gu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2022 13:28:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42750) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nxXYY-0006rw-SZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2022 13:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:35234 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nxXYW-0002Xc-9c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2022 13:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 18214 invoked by uid 3782); 4 Jun 2022 17:27:17 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p2e5d52ce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.93.82.206]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 04 Jun 2022 19:27:16 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 6142 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jun 2022 17:27:16 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290671 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. On Sat, Jun 04, 2022 at 18:09:45 +0200, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > No, no, no, no! Org mode is a highly complicated, obscure mode which > > is NOT part of core Emacs, and mustn't become so. > AFAICT, Org-mode has been distributed with Emacs for more than five > major releases by now (approx. 15 years). That's a strawman. Org mode is not part of the Emacs core. It's not something in the part of Emacs inevitably used by any normal proficient user. Neither is Gnus. Neither is CC Mode, for that matter. By contrast *Help*, Info, font-lock, the package manager, a lot of other things, and a vast selection of commands bound to keys in the global key map, are the core. > > Surely the solution has got to be to encourage package authors to > > write plain text (or .texi) documentation, by pointing out the > > difficulties the non-standard .org format creates. > In the Emacs community, Org-mode is ubiquitous. Only in the sense that it's distributed with each Emacs release. > I think we should actively encourage using it for most types of > documentation, certainly for README type files. I disagree entirely with you. Org mode is highly complicated, obscure (I've never managed to get a feel for what it does), and difficult to learn (I've never managed it). A text file is far easier to read for those not familiar with org. We're talking about READMEs here. They're typically 20 to 100 lines long. A text file is ideal for these. > Texinfo has its strengths of course, but it is unfortunately perceived > as arcane and hard to use by many. It's moderately easy to use, somewhat difficult to learn. > And Org-mode can be converted to be read in 'M-x info'. You mean it _has_ to be converted to be read? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).