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From: <tomas@tuxteam.de>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:04:55 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YoCJ9x/HJoAZaQN1@tuxteam.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAO2hHWY=rgHTUXUrZP5LiPvs3g740qbLO9hYL7i=VRRBnxcm4g@mail.gmail.com>

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On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 05:43:33PM -0400, chad wrote:
> There is a small additional wrinkle to Tim Cross' excellent summary:
> [about uncertainty] I'm
> a firm proponent of Hanlon's Razor, but it's hard to believe that this
> outcome isn't at least tacitly accepted.

I've vented my opinion several times here, so I fear I'm repeating
myself.

I think bigcorps have, to some extent, given up on controlling [0]
users via proprietary software. Free software has won, in some
strange way (a bit like the Monkey's Paw [1], returning as Open
Source).

To protect their business model, they have to devise other ways.
One of them is to interpose themselves as monopolistic "services"
between people and their everyday tasks: information retrieval
(Google), communications (Facebook, Twitter et al), business
contact (Google, Microsoft, etc.), mobile connectivity (Google,
Apple), marketplace (Amazon)... I could go on.

What we are seeing here is the "service" of identity management,
something up to now reserved to nation states (they used to
issue passports, remember?)

Now I'm coming back to you, Chad: as long as they are trying
to conquer market share, this kind of uncertainty is useful:
they get the "cheaters", i.e. those who are disgusted by the
very concept. Currently those Firefox users. They formally
break the T&C, but we don't go after them... yet.

To offer a historical parallel: I remember a time (must have
been around Windows 3.x) where everyone knew that using a
number divisible by seven [2] gave you a valid Windows license
key, so you could install an illegal copy. I'm convinced that
back then, Microsoft /wanted/ to see its user base extended
by this huge population. They weren't going to pay anyway,
they were those trained in Windows advocating for it at
work, they could be cracked on at will, and oh, the complaining
about those "criminals" "stealing" billions and billions
"worth" of software. What's not to like?

I don't believe Hanlon applied then. I don't believe Hanlon
applies here (that's why I came up with this mix of Hanlon's
razor and Clarke's Third).

Cheers

[0] Control sounds sooo... evil. It's just about business,
   crisp and cold.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey%27s_Paw
[2] the concrete details may be wrong: it's a while
   ago

-- 
t

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  reply	other threads:[~2022-05-15  5:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-05-03  5:59 gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2) Uwe Brauer
2022-05-03  6:27 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2022-05-03 20:44   ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-04  7:22     ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-04  8:43     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-05 12:57       ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-05 13:48         ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-08 14:36           ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-08 16:00             ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-08 16:40               ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-09  8:38                 ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-10  6:29                   ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-10  8:13                     ` Robert Pluim
2022-06-02 15:15                       ` [app password does not work (at the moment)] (was: gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2)) Uwe Brauer
2022-06-02 15:37                         ` [SOLVED (magic?)] (was: [app password does not work (at the moment)]) Uwe Brauer
2022-06-03 14:04                           ` [SOLVED (magic?)] Robert Pluim
2022-06-06  6:49                             ` Uwe Brauer
2022-06-06  7:47                               ` Robert Pluim
2022-06-06 18:55                           ` [SOLVED (magic?)] (was: [app password does not work (at the moment)]) Tomas Hlavaty
2022-06-06 19:07                             ` tomas
2022-06-06 19:37                               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-06-07  4:35                                 ` tomas
2022-06-07  5:52                                   ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-06-07  7:09                                     ` [Clarification] (was: [SOLVED (magic?)]) Uwe Brauer
2022-06-07 10:02                                       ` Yuri Khan
2022-06-07 16:24                                         ` [Clarification] Uwe Brauer
2022-06-07  7:15                                     ` [SOLVED (magic?)] (was: [app password does not work (at the moment)]) tomas
2022-06-09 22:30                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-07  5:44                               ` [SOLVED (magic?)] Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-06-07  6:04                                 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-06-07  7:14                                   ` tomas
2022-06-09 22:29                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-10  7:43                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12  0:44                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  5:02                                           ` tomas
2022-06-15 10:05                                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-09 22:30                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-07 23:18                               ` [SOLVED (magic?)] (was: [app password does not work (at the moment)]) Richard Stallman
2022-05-05 13:56         ` gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2) Tim Cross
2022-05-05 13:58         ` Filipp Gunbin
2022-05-05 20:13           ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2022-05-05 21:44             ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-05-06  0:43             ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06  8:01               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06  9:04                 ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 11:38                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-06 12:02                     ` tomas
2022-05-06 12:06                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-05-06 12:46                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-06 13:05                         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-11  9:01                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11  9:01                         ` gmail+imap+smtp (davmail) Richard Stallman
2022-05-11  9:43                           ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-13 15:08                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06 12:49                       ` gmail+imap+smtp (oauth2) Tim Cross
2022-05-06 13:23                         ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-06 13:40                         ` tomas
2022-05-06 12:34                     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 12:34                     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 16:49                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06 16:41                     ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06 16:38                   ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06 18:55                     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 19:57                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-08 23:36                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-09  0:26                         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-10  6:53                         ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-11  9:04                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11 23:38                             ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-12  9:16                               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-12 16:51                               ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-05-15 23:37                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-12  7:10                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-12  9:03                         ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06 23:18               ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06 10:30             ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-08 23:37               ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-09  5:13                 ` tomas
2022-05-09 12:25                 ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-09 23:20                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11  9:47                     ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-13 15:08                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-12 10:36                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-13  6:58                     ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-16 23:25                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-12 14:12               ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2022-05-13  8:57                 ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-13 18:49                   ` Roland Winkler
2022-05-14  9:57                     ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-05 18:37       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-05 19:13         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-05 19:52           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-05 20:10             ` Uwe Brauer
2022-05-06  0:32               ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 23:18           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06 23:42             ` Brian Cully via Emacs development discussions.
2022-05-06  1:46         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-05-06 23:18           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-03 23:40   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-04  2:05     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-04  5:13       ` tomas
2022-05-04 13:34       ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-05-04 14:38         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-04 14:58           ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-04 14:48         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-04 15:41           ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2022-05-05 18:37             ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06  8:34             ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-06 23:18               ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-07  3:22                 ` Tim Cross
2022-05-08 23:35                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-09  0:01                     ` Tim Cross
2022-05-10  7:11                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-10  7:51                         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-10 11:44                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-05-10 12:39                             ` Tim Cross
2022-05-11  9:52                           ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-11  9:01                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11  9:01                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11 12:03                         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-13 15:10                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11  9:01                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-11 12:33                         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-11 14:08                           ` Tim Cross
2022-05-14 14:12                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-13 15:10                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-14 10:02                             ` Eric S Fraga
2022-05-16 23:25                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-14 21:43                   ` chad
2022-05-15  5:04                     ` tomas [this message]
2022-05-05 18:36         ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06  0:37           ` Tim Cross
2022-05-04 15:35       ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-05-04 15:48         ` Robert Pluim
2022-05-04 16:01           ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-05-04 16:48             ` Tim Cross
2022-05-05 18:36             ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-05 21:34               ` Brian Cully via Emacs development discussions.
2022-05-05 22:13                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-05-06 23:18                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06  0:54                 ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06  2:21                   ` Brian Cully via Emacs development discussions.
2022-05-06 23:18                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06 23:19                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-06 23:47                   ` Brian Cully via Emacs development discussions.
2022-05-04 16:45           ` Tim Cross
2022-05-04 16:33         ` Tim Cross
2022-05-06 23:17           ` Richard Stallman
2022-05-04 17:01 ` Cesar Crusius
2022-05-05  1:57   ` Tim Cross

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