From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:47:26 +0300 Message-ID: References: <5D13C3C0-C4EB-4769-9685-25122DC9B8DC@gmail.com> <875yr2rfd1.fsf@yahoo.com> <369E183D-87EC-45AB-8352-9A780006561E@gmail.com> <87zgoeps3f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgoeo91m.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ee5j68z9.fsf@gnu.org> <83czkza4h6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17588"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.1.5+104 (cd3a5c8) (2022-01-09) Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 11 05:51:02 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n797e-0004OA-SU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 05:51:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53316 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n797d-00005w-6S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 23:51:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53782) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n796M-0007gW-Vy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 23:49:42 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:41151) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n796H-0004GG-Te; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 23:49:42 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.155.59]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000065DFA.0000000061DD0C5E.00003B9B; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:49:34 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , luangruo@yahoo.com, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83czkza4h6.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284574 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2022-01-10 20:25]: > > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 07:15:56 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > * Eli Zaretskii [2022-01-07 15:12]: > > > > What you really want is plain Emacs without customizations for new > > > > users. New users will not customize it anyway. > > > > > > ??? Why wouldn't new users customize Emacs? Customization is > > > generally one of the first things I do in any new program I start > > > using. > > > > You are advanced computer user. > > So is (almost) anyone who comes to Emacs. They are Emacs newbies, but > they are not computer newbies. > > Please don't consider our newbies to be too dumb. Of course not, never mentioned it. Speaking from real life observation and new people facing Emacs: I have here recruitment line, a process to recruit people. First step for them was to learn the TUTORIAL and they went through tutorial and used Emacs. About 4-5 people in Tanzania and about 5-7 people in Uganda went through it. So in this process people are also not new to computers and none of my staff members ever started, wanted or attempted to improve Emacs by changing settings or optimizing it. The small personal experience with about 10+ people does not and cannot tell about general first time encounter with Emacs. Customization experience is rather coming when user standards reading the Emacs Manual. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/