From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:45:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtua9isw.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuog95a6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14290"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 08 17:47:19 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUWsJ-0003a0-Bz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 17:47:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47288 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUWsI-0002RE-CN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 11:47:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUWr3-0001QY-1k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 11:46:01 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:44338 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUWqw-00076m-IZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 11:45:59 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 49940 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Apr 2021 15:45:51 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.41]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 17:45:51 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 6896 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Apr 2021 15:45:51 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83tuog95a6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267625 Archived-At: On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 18:15:13 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:02:47 +0000 > > Cc: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , > > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > "foreign" implies a specific point of reference. > > So does "international", used as it is here. International means "between nations", as in an "international conference", an "internation railway line", ..... It does not mean "foreign" or "Non-USA". > Really? I though i18n, l10n, and the like are established terminology > nowadays. Yes, they are correct usage. "Internationalisation" means "make something usable in lots of nations". For example: > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/intl/international-support That usage means "foreign", i.e. "non-USA". It is not intended to support people who work in two or more nations, for example. Surely we can do better than Microsoft, here. > There's also "multilingual" and m17n, but I thought it was less known. > However, maybe we should consider something like "Multilingual Help"? Why? Nobody wants "multilingual help" - at least not usually. We each seek help in, if possible, our own language. We're not talking about helping people who speak several languages, or for translation services, we're talking about help in languages which aren't English. Why can't we just say that? We can't hide for long that the single "native" language in Emacs is (American) English. Why should we try? What's wrong with "Non-English"? It says exactly what's meant, and surely is unlikely to cause offence. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).