From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 09:39:55 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83sg4n9jei.fsf@gnu.org> <271290d7aac58f2f9e96@heytings.org> <83czvr9hvc.fsf@gnu.org> <271290d7aa69bbcaa204@heytings.org> <83lfae8fbg.fsf@gnu.org> <22aaf0fadd0894af49d9@heytings.org> <83v99i6ink.fsf@gnu.org> <22aaf0fadd0870c0e9f8@heytings.org> <22aaf0fadda0f9d9bc03@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1571"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 24 07:45:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOxGZ-0000FO-Ht for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 07:45:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55064 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOxGY-0001Zb-G4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 02:45:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41086) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOxFG-00018P-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 02:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:50399) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOxFB-00021M-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 02:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.53]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E0AB.00000000605ADFA3.00003722; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 23:43:46 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <22aaf0fadda0f9d9bc03@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266924 Archived-At: * Gregory Heytings [2021-03-24 00:07]: > > > > > C-o is bound where it is because when Emacs was written, someone -- most > > probpobly RMS -- bound it there, so it isn't really a historical > > accident but rather an active design decision. There is also a reason > > why C-x C-o where it is. > > > > I digged further in my archives. In case some are interested: > > As most of you know, the original Emacs was written in TECO. C-o was a > command of TECO's real-time editing feature (which was entered with C-r), > which was imported into Emacs. The purpose of C-o in TECO was to optimize > redisplay: when point on in the middle of a non-empty line, C-o F O O > required less redisplay than F O O RET. As "Emacs" by name, it was maybe in TECO, but we are here in GNU Emacs, not in TECO by its name. Please see this timeline (no accuracy guarantee) from: https://www.jwz.org/doc/emacs-timeline.html 1976 TECMAC and TMACS a pair of "TECO-macro realtime editors." by Guy Steele, Dave Moon, Richard Greenblatt, Charles Frankston, et al. | | 1976 EMACS by Richard Stallman, Guy Steele, EINE (EINE Is Not EMACS) and Dave Moon. by Dan Weinreb. Merger of TECMAC and TMACS, plus for MIT Lisp Machine. a dynamic loader and Meta-key cmds. First Emacs written in Lisp. Ran on ITS and TWENEX (Tops-20) | written in TECO and PDP 10 assembly. | | | 1978 Multics Emacs ZWEI (ZWEI Was EINE Initially) by Bernie Greenberg. by Dan Weinreb and Mike McMahon. written in MacLisp; | also used Lisp as its | extension language. | 1980 ZMACS (direct descendant of ZWEI) on Symbolics LM-2, LMI LispM, and later, TI Explorer (1983-1989) 1981 Gosling Emacs : by James Gosling : written in C; with "Mocklisp" as its extension language. / | 1983 / | / Unipress Emacs (6-may-83) / $395 commercial product. 1984 / Hemlock / by Bill Chiles, / Rob MacLachlan, et al. 1985 GNU Emacs 13.0? (20-mar-85) written in Spice Lisp by Richard Stallman. (CMU Common Lisp) initial public release? : | : GNU Emacs 15.10 (11-apr-85) : | GNU Emacs 15.34 (07-may-85) | GNU Emacs 16.56 (15-jul-85) (Gosling code expunged for copyright reasons) | | GNU Emacs 16.60 (19-sep-85) (contained first patches from the net, including preliminary SYSV support) | | GNU Emacs 17.36 (20-dec-85) (included TeX manual; first version that worked on SYSV out of the box) | | 1986 GNU Emacs 18.24 beta (02-oct-86) | 1987 GNU Emacs 18.41 (22-mar-87) | GNU Emacs 18.45 (02-jun-87) | GNU Emacs 18.49 (18-sep-87) | \ | \________________________________________________ | \ | \ | Early work on Epoch begins (1987) | by Alan M. Carroll 1988 GNU Emacs 18.50 (13-feb-88) | | | GNU Emacs 18.51 (07-may-88) | | | GNU Emacs 18.52 (01-sep-88) | | Epoch 1.0 (14-dec-88) | by Alan M. Carroll with Simon Kaplan 1989 GNU Emacs 18.53 (24-feb-89) | | \ | | \________________________________________________ | _____ | | \ GNU Emacs 18.54 (26-apr-89) | \ | | \ GNU Emacs 18.55 (23-aug-89) | \ | | | \ | | | NEmacs 3.2.1 (15-dec-89) | | | "Nihongo Emacs": a fork | | | with multi-byte Japanese | | | language support. | | | | | | Epoch 2.0 (23-dec-89) | | | | | | | | | 1990 | | Epoch 3.1 (06-feb-90) | | | | | | \ | NEmacs 3.3.1 (3-mar-90) | \ | | | \ Epoch 3.2 (11-dec-90) | | \ last Carroll release. | | \____ (sporadic work on | | | GNU Emacs 19 begins) | | | | | | | | | | | | Epoch 4.0 (27-aug-90) | | | Now maintained by NCSA. | | | | | 1991 GNU Emacs 18.57 (??-jan-91) | | | | | | | GNU Emacs 18.58 (??-???-91) | | | | | | | 1992 | |___ | MULE 0.9.0b (4-mar-92) | | \ | "Multilingual | | \ | Enhancements to Emacs": | | \ | support for input methods | | \ | and various languages | | Lucid Emacs 19.0 (??-apr-92) | including Japanese, | | by Jamie Zawinski et al. | Chinese, Korean, Greek, | | | | Hebrew, and Cyrillic. | | Lucid Emacs 19.1 (04-jun-92) | | | | | | | | | Lucid Emacs 19.2 (19-jun-92) | | | | | | | | | Lucid Emacs 19.3 (09-sep-92) | | GNU Emacs 18.59 (31-oct-92) | | | | | | | | | 1993 | / Lucid Emacs 19.4 (21-jan-93) | | | / | | | | / Lucid Emacs 19.5 (05-feb-93) | | | / (trade-show giveaway CD only) | | | / | | | | ____________/ Lucid Emacs 19.6 (09-apr-93) | | | / | | | | / | | | GNU Emacs 19.7 beta (22-may-93) | /| | first public v19 beta | / | | | | / | ...___ | GNU Emacs 19.8 beta (27-may-93) | / | \ | | \ | / | \ | | \________________ | ___________________/ | MULE 1.0 (1-aug-93) | \ | / | (based on GNU Emacs 18.59) | Lucid Emacs 19.8 (06-sep-93) | | | (Epoch merger, preliminary | | | I18N support) | | | | | | GNU Emacs 19.22 beta (28-nov-93) | | | | | | | 1994 | Lucid Emacs 19.9 (12-may-94) / | | (scrollbars, Athena) / | | | / | GNU Emacs 19.23 beta (17-may-94) | / | | \ | / | | \____________ | ___________________/ | | \ | / | | Lucid Emacs 19.10 (27-may-94) | | last JWZ release. | | | | GNU Emacs 19.24 beta (16-may-94) | | | | ...___ | | | \ | | | \ | | | MULE 2.0 (6-aug-94) | | (based on GNU Emacs 19.25) | | | | XEmacs 19.11 (13-sep-94) | | Lucid Emacs -> XEmacs renaming. | | now maintained by Chuck Thompson | | and Ben Wing. | | | | GNU Emacs 19.27 beta (14-sep-94) | | | | | GNU Emacs 19.28 (01-nov-94) | | first official v19 release. | ...___ | | | \ | | | \ | | | MULE 2.2 (28-dec-94) | | (based on GNU Emacs 19.28) | | | | | | 1995 | | MULE 2.3 (24-jul-95) | | . | XEmacs 19.12 (23-jun-95) . | (tty support) \ . GNU Emacs 19.29 (21-jun-95) | \ . | | (work on 20.x begins) . GNU Emacs 19.30 (24-nov-95) | : . | \ | : . | \_____________ | . | \ | . | XEmacs 19.13 (01-sep-95) . 1996 GNU Emacs 19.31 (25-may-96) | . | XEmacs 19.14 (23-jun-96) . GNU Emacs 19.34 (21-aug-96) | \ . 1997 | XEmacs 20.0 (09-feb-97) \ . | now maintained by \ . | Steve Baur. | . | | XEmacs 19.15 (26-mar-97) . | | | . | XEmacs 20.1 (15-apr-97) | . | | | . | XEmacs 20.2 (16-may-97) | . GNU Emacs 20.1 (17-sep-97) | | . | | | . GNU Emacs 20.2 (20-sep-97) | | . | | XEmacs 19.16 (31-oct-97) . | | . | XEmacs 20.3 (21-nov-97) . | | / | | ________________________________/ | | / | | / 1998 | XEmacs 20.4 (28-feb-98) | first reasonably stable | release with MULE support. | XEmacs "core" and "packages" | now packaged separately. | | | | | XEmacs 21.0-pre5 (18-jul-98) | Numbering scheme goes wonky due to | switch to stable + unstable branches. GNU Emacs 20.3 (19-aug-98) | | | | XEmacs 21.0.60 (10-dec-98) | / \___________________ | / \ 1999 | / XEmacs 21.2.9 (03-feb-99) | / (trunk / unstable branch) | / | | XEmacs 21.1.3 (26-jun-99) | | (stable / maintenance branch) | | maintained by Vin Shelton. | | | | GNU Emacs 20.4 (12-jul-99) | | | | | 2000 | | XEmacs 21.2.27 (18-jan-00) | | | | XEmacs 21.1.9 (13-feb-00) | | | | GNU Emacs 21.1 (20-oct-01) | XEmacs 21.2.36 (04-oct-00) | | | 2001 | XEmacs 21.1.14 (27-jan-01) | | (branch retired) | | XEmacs 21.2.40 (08-jan-01) | ____________________/ | | / | | / XEmacs 21.5.0 (18-apr-01) | / (trunk / unstable branch) | / | | XEmacs 21.4.0 (16-apr-01) | | (stable / maintenance branch) | | Maintained by Stephen Turnbull. | | Shipped by Red Hat, Debian, | | Mandrake, etc. | | | | 2002 GNU Emacs 21.2 (16-mar-02) | XEmacs 21.5.6 (05-apr-02) | | | | XEmacs 21.4.7 (04-may-02) | | | | 2003 | XEmacs 21.4.12 (15-jan-03) | | first "stable" 21.4 | | | | GNU Emacs 21.3 (19-mar-03) | | | | | | XEmacs 21.4.13 (25-may-03) | | maintained by Vin Shelton. | | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.14 (01-jun-03) | | | | XEmacs 21.4.14 (05-sep-03) | | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.16 (26-sep-03) 2004 | | | | XEmacs 21.4.15 (03-feb-04) | | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.18 (22-oct-04) | | | | XEmacs 21.4.17 (06-feb-05) | 2005 | | | GNU Emacs 21.4a (17-feb-05) | XEmacs 21.5.19 (18-feb-05) | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.23 (26-oct-05) | | | | XEmacs 21.4.18 (03-dec-05) | | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.24 (19-dec-05) | | | 2006 | XEmacs 21.4.19 (28-jan-06) | | | | | | XEmacs 21.5.28 (21-may-06) | | | XEmacs 21.4.20 (09-dec-06) | | GNU Emacs 22.1 (02-jun-07) | | 2007 XEmacs 21.4.21 (14-oct-07)