From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:46:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> <8735wnjsum.fsf@gnus.org> <271290d7aa8b3d984968@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10483"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Jean Louis , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 22 18:48:00 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOem-0002bv-NF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:48:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37332 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOel-0001RY-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:47:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49510) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOdq-0000ne-RN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:47:03 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:24787 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOOdl-0007DJ-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:47:00 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 95522 invoked by uid 3782); 22 Mar 2021 17:46:54 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b2f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.47]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:46:54 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 8136 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Mar 2021 17:46:54 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <271290d7aa8b3d984968@heytings.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266767 Archived-At: Hello, Gregory. On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 17:08:32 +0000, Gregory Heytings wrote: [ .... ] > > For now I count 3 people from mailing lists who already objected to it, > > including me. > I've only seen one (you), and perhaps a second one (Alfred), but I'm not > quite sure because he initially thought that open-line would be removed. You ignored my objections on Saturday. That makes at least 3 people who've objected. That's not counting the people who have merely "commented" rather than objected whole-heartedly. [ .... ] > > Gregory, don't you think that 3 users including me who expressed their > > objections is not part of the experiment already? > No, precisely because nobody actually experimented the potential change. There's no need for any "experiment". It's perfectly obvious what you're proposing and the effect it will have. And describing it as an "experiment", as though your intention is purely to discover something about Emacs use, is more than a little disingenuous. There remains the possibility that you intend to push through this removal of the C-o binding, and describing it as "an experiment" should soften the resistance to it. Of course, it is very easy to forget to restore the binding once the "experiment" is over. C-o is a much used binding, valued by lots of people, including me. > You cannot give an opinion on a change before experimenting it for some > time, say, at least a day. Anybody who wishes to experiment with this thing is perfectly able to make the temporary adjustments to his own key maps without annoying other users of the master branch. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).