From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Sv: Suggested experimental test Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:24:10 +0300 Message-ID: References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14357"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: arthur miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 22 11:44:16 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOI2i-0003dg-KZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:44:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOI2h-0005hb-IO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:44:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33774) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOHnP-0000u6-61 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:28:27 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:33377) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOHnN-0005G2-1C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.53]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E079.0000000060587144.000049B5; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 03:28:20 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: arthur miller , Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266743 Archived-At: * arthur miller [2021-03-21 13:59]: > I don't understand why people are so passionately wasting time > on arguing about shortcuts. As I understand Emacs it is supposed > to be molded after each ones preference. Personally to me I rebind > almost anything to my liking and what makes sense to me. To help you understand from my perspective, I am maintaining multiple remote servers, and have multiple computers, and each time when working on those computers I do not use any custom key bindings, and I do some extensive, personally important editing. Some computers use older Emacs versions, only one is using the development version, some are on different free operating systems, currently we use 4 different operating systems. I do expect Emacs to behave by how we used to know it by habit. Being passionate is virtue and benefit for Emacs development. I cannot see it as a waste of time as by following last months or years of development I can just see great improvements without which I would not be able to do my work right now. It is easy, after all discussions, to then say how some of emails were waste of time, but that falls into the context of saying that it is easy to be general after the battle. Discussions bring about good things, and they create new software and incite people to create new software. Many disagreements may bring some programmers to make new useful software, we can see that in case of ergonomical key bindings in the package `ergoemacs-mode' of Xah, we can see that disagreements come up with new excellent Emacs extensions like Spacemacs or Doom Emacs, that people like so much. Emacs may be customizes as one wish, but there are expectations by Emacs users that can annoy and break the habits. That is price. If the price is affordable, then changing some key bindings like M-o is quite alright as for now. If we however start changing key bindings like it is some kind of a priority, we will see decline of Emacs users as some may find it silly. Human editors tend to learn methods and rely on its software.