From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Proposal to remove C-o binding [was: Suggested experimental test] Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:37:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5935"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 20 13:38:50 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lNasT-0001TN-8Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:38:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54848 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNasS-0000FE-7Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:38:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNarj-0008EW-7K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:47308 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNarf-0003Pu-OO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 72896 invoked by uid 3782); 20 Mar 2021 12:37:56 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p2e5d55b2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.93.85.178]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:37:55 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 6211 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Mar 2021 12:37:55 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266645 Archived-At: Hello, Gregory. On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 09:03:39 +0000, Gregory Heytings wrote: > > This concludes our first experimental test on the devel branch. The > > amount of feedback wasn't overwhelming, but we did get some -- and I > > guess the `M-o' command wasn't very popular, so I'm not really that > > surprised. I anticipate there will be quite a lot of resentment about this when we release Emacs 28.1. > > So I think it was a moderately successful experiment, and we should use > > this way of trying out user interface changes more. Hmm. > May I suggest the attached, slightly more controversial, experimental > test? I suggest it remains just a suggestion - at least for now. We won't know how well or badly the removal of M-o will go until after the release of Emacs 28. C-o is a much used binding. Replacing it with the less convenient C-o C-o binding is going to annoy people greatly. Also, we don't really need to free up C-o - we've already got all of M-o unused. Where is this all going to stop? [ .... ] -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).