From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 14:14:42 +0300 Message-ID: References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27858"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 20 12:18:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZd1-00078Q-UZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:18:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34212 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZd0-00037z-Vt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 07:18:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZc0-0002iL-PU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 07:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:39351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lNZby-0007OY-9y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 07:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.53]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000027F39.000000006055D9D3.00004874; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 04:17:38 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_DOTEDU=1.16 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266640 Archived-At: * Gregory Heytings [2021-03-20 12:04]: > + "We've disabled the normal `C-o' binding for a month (until April\n" > + "23th, 2021) in the development version of GNU Emacs, > while keeping\n Yes, go ahead and make the test, why not. I like testing, but I also do not like changing this C-o to anything else than what it is. This time I will immediately revert it back due to how many times I use C-o in Emacs. C-o is in other editors because of Emacs standard keybindings also in many other Emacs related editors. I use zile editor, and mg editor and e3em editor depeding on what system I am, console or GUI, and if Emacs is installed or not. In all those editors I use C-o Also is one test like M-o now suppposed to endorse many new tests that are going against standard and well used keybindings. Imagine just how that impacts people who depend on instructions spread all over Internet for Emacs standard key bindings. Rutgers School of Arts and Sciences publishes it: https://resources.cs.rutgers.edu/docs/emacs-command-summary/ Yale has article "How to use Emacs" in the clas https://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs210/help/emacs.html Stanford: http://www-tcad.stanford.edu/local/DOC/emacs_21.html Michigan State University: https://www.cse.msu.edu/Resources/Facilities/Howto/TextEditing.php Columbia: https://cuit.columbia.edu/emacs Before making proposals out of the blue, I suggest that from a list of all key bindings then make: - a list of very basic standard and wide spread key bindings shall be made, that most probably should not change, as that is where one has to be reluctant. C-f is a sample member of this list, IMHO C-o as well. - with a list of other keys possible for some changes due to their improper placement, as we have seen that M-o was improperly placed globally instead of only in enriched mode. - do tests on the latter. Jean