From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change command to interactive ... modes Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 23:20:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83h7mb98g8.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8gjuaez.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1v97bk.fsf@gnu.org> <877dn7u7wq.fsf@gnus.org> <835z2r94zw.fsf@gnu.org> <831rdf91r1.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft1vsmf5.fsf@gnus.org> <87im6rr5b8.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37074"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , dgutov@yandex.ru, Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 17 00:21:26 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lC9en-0009XB-Je for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 00:21:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42252 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC9em-0005Kt-Mu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:21:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC9e2-0004rT-2n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:20:38 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:29152 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC9dy-0000W5-JX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:20:37 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 6407 invoked by uid 3782); 16 Feb 2021 23:20:29 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15a74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.116]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 00:20:29 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 9589 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Feb 2021 23:20:29 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87im6rr5b8.fsf@gnus.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264956 Archived-At: Hello, Lars. On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 23:55:23 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > Other people disagree with your judgment, here. > And some agree. One of those people questioning that judgment is Eli Zaretskii, the chief maintainer of Emacs. > > I explained that in my post from Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:03:53 +0000. You > > ignored that post, as you have ignored so many posts questioning your > > new scheme. Instead you've ploughed ahead with the changes, without > > waiting for the desired consensus. > I have posted more than 50 posts about this in the last few days, but I > haven't responded to all messages Many of these posts merely responded to the points made without answering them. In fact, some of them were downright evasive, including at least some to Eli from this evening. Why did you not deal with these points before hacking master? > -- especially since Stefan K had already rebutted the points in your > post. He did no such thing. He expressed a view contrary to mine, and I'm not sure he even understood what I was saying. His posts lacked the customary semantic redundancy that would allow a proper discussion to have developed. Indeed, it seemed clear he wasn't leaving any opening for such a discussion. But my points have not been answered properly. You are the person driving these far-reaching changes. Why are you evading scrutiny of them? Why are you making these changes on master rather than in a branch? It seems you want to present a fait accompli without the consensus. Why? Why are you treating Eli with such disrespect? Again, I ask you, what sort of project do you want Emacs to be? Do you value the respect and consensus which has been prevalent up to now, or are you trying to supplant it with something else? > -- > (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) > bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).