From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concern about new binding. Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:35:58 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83lfc53whk.fsf@gnu.org> <20210203180142.seu6o3i6u7jhkyrh@Ergus> <83eehx3to5.fsf@gnu.org> <20210203221628.xgvvxjvh56gyswba@Ergus> <20210204070033.pm4ido4hq7a6twif@Ergus> <83sg6brhyg.fsf@gnu.org> <5588fb25805d486be704@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35762"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 09:38:18 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lATxy-0009FP-1M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:38:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39200 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lATxx-00051n-3Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 03:38:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43280) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lATxP-0004ak-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 03:37:43 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:42607) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lATxM-0001r4-Fx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 03:37:42 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.3]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E079.0000000060263E51.00003A0F; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 01:37:37 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5588fb25805d486be704@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264467 Archived-At: * Gregory Heytings [2021-02-05 12:23]: > > It seems to me that the root problem of this thread, and similar ones in the > past months, is the lack of a convention for external packages in `(elisp) > Key Binding Conventions'. There is a convention for users, there are > conventions for major and minor modes, but there is no convention for > external packages such as Magit, Drew's packages, and so forth. > Consequently, the only solution for such packages is to use the currently > empty slots, with a sword of Damocles hanging over them: these empty slots > could at any time be reclaimed by Emacs. I too can sympathize with Drew's > (and other's) frustration when this happens. I am using Super key, the one between Ctrl and Alt. If Emacs on console would found automatic way to recognize that key in the same way how it recognizes it under X or graphical environment then maybe it could be one of solutions for third party packages. > This proposal has two forms: a weak and a strong one. The weak one would > only reserve the control key, the strong one would also reserve the meta and > control-meta keys. Meta or Alternative is just fine, it is equivalent to Control key, just one key. Both Control and Alternative (Meta) are harder to type and really not convenient for third party packages. > The candidate keys for that proposal are "z", "t" and "o". C-z, C-t, C-o are old commands. C-t works in bash the same, why then change the default Emacs binding that has been reflected into many other Emacs-like editors? Those proposals come very surprising to me. > IOW, one could for example reserve either "C-z" (weak version), or "C-z" and > "M-z" and "C-M-z" (strong version), for external packages. M-z is just fine to replace as it is not implemented in other Emacs-like editors and is not common, it is very nice and would disturb people using the zap to char. Somebody's habits will be sacrificed anyway. > This is a one-time change, which I'm sure will not be an easy one > for everyone, but is a long-term solution that will avoid such > repeated wars. As long as it is not C-z, C-t, C-o.