From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 21:55:40 +0300 Message-ID: References: <8ed9b43502ae1480e06b@heytings.org> <83r1lohqoc.fsf@gnu.org> <8335y2ittg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16709"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, ams@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 20:07:59 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAHJn-0004FZ-5X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 20:07:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33916 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAHJm-0002k0-35 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:07:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAH9w-00028O-Qn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:57:48 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:47343) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAH9q-0004eo-Eb; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:57:48 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.3]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E079.0000000060257E22.00006A94; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:57:38 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , ams@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8335y2ittg.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264422 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2021-02-11 17:05]: > > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 08:15:44 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: "Alfred M. Szmidt" , gregory@heytings.org, > > larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > > This question also goes to everyone else in this long dispute who > > > wants their precious key bindings preserved: why is such a long > > > discussion needed when it is so easy to restore, in your init file, a > > > binding you want preserved? > > > > I do not even know literal names of commands run by some keys. > > That's so easy to find out that I don't see how this factoid is of any > relevance to the issue at hand. For example I have used C-o so often in my life, daily, but only recently from this mailing list found that it is bound to `open-line'. I know what it does but I never called it "open line". I hope that you get the concept. I have not been speaking about it or telling anybody, I just know it intuitively. Probably I have learned it in past and forgot consciously what I learned. Would then surprisingly C-o disappear without me ever knowing that it is `open-line' I would not be able in the new version of Emacs to just by using my memory bind it to `open-line' as I was not aware of the function `open-line' in the first place. In memory there is C-o but I would not know by memory what is the name of the function to bind it on the key. In `mutt' email client there are similar commands bound to keys that I use for many years. Similarly I would not know by memory which command is bound to which key. I know T to tag messages but I do not know that it's command is `tag-pattern' (I looked it up now just to know which one it is). For unbinding of the `M-o' I find it personally appropriate as it does not have use globally. I think it works well only in the enriched mode. Unbinding C-z would give me problems if I would be surprised without reading about it on this mailing list. So I feel that probably thousands of users would be similarly surprised and they may not read this mailing list. So I rather think that surprising changes impact globally Emacs users. My personal use or adoption of new things in Emacs I may consider sometimes easier than what global users would consider. I hope that from this you understand the concept of remembering the functionality without remembering the literal names of a command. Jean