From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: command mode-specificity [was: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change...] Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 20:14:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83tuqa5ug7.fsf@gnu.org> <87eehdy5ie.fsf@gnus.org> <87tuq98gdl.fsf@telefonica.net> <87pn0x8f8l.fsf@telefonica.net> <87mtw1s1jk.fsf@gmail.com> <87lfbl894v.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25608"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 18 21:15:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCpht-0006YR-Ce for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:15:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41902 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCphs-0004h9-DF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:15:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45842) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCpgw-0003ov-87 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:14:26 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:46415 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCpgr-0007zs-5J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:14:25 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 31594 invoked by uid 3782); 18 Feb 2021 20:14:18 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15a07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.7]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 21:14:18 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 32073 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Feb 2021 20:14:18 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87lfbl894v.fsf@telefonica.net> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265192 Archived-At: Hello, Óscar. On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 20:32:16 +0100, Óscar Fuentes wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > Hello, Robert. > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 18:55:59 +0100, Robert Pluim wrote: > >> >>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:35:44 +0000, Alan Mackenzie said: > >> Alan> No, not from some other mode. We're talking about commands shared by a > >> Alan> set of modes known only at runtime. If the list of modes cannot be > >> Alan> updated at runtime, this is a deficiency in the design. > >> Iʼm having a hard time thinking of an example, eg you might not know > >> which of the modes provided by the cc-mode package the user actually > >> uses, but adding all of them to the relevant commands can be done > >> beforehand. Can you expand? > > No, it can't be done. There is no list of "all" CC Mode packages. > > They're largely created and distributed by third parties, i.e. > > they're outside the orbit of Emacs development. There is no complete > > list of them. > AFAIR those modes derive from c-mode, right? It that is so, the > commands are automatically applicable to them. Not in the sense of define-derived-mode, no. csharp Mode isn't a "sort of Java Mode", so it wouldn't make sense to use define-derived-mode here. So the commands aren't automatically applicable to these modes. > > For this facility to be general, the list of modes MUST be changeable at > > runtime. > Why at runtime? (apart that compile-time and run-time is a somewhat > diffuse distinction for Elisp) Can't the mode have declarations like > thos I mentioned? At runtime, meaning at the time when the user builds or loads csharp Mode. This is not the build time of Emacs as a whole. I'm not sure which declarations you mean, but it isn't reasonable to expect third party maintainers to change their source code for this. > But apart from that, I see no big problem about changing the list of > modes at runtime, although I don't know the current implementation, so > I hope someone else can clarify this. The current implementation is that the lists of modes has been shoe-horned onto the `interactive' form. This may be a candidate for going into read-only memory, I don't know. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).