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From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, ulm@gentoo.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org,
	arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru
Subject: Re: Org schemas we talked to be non-free, was: [ELPA] New package: repology.el
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:50:35 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YA8E60quuLAz+9ZT@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83mtwx2gnx.fsf@gnu.org>

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-01-25 18:14]:
> > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:47:42 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: ulm@gentoo.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, ams@gnu.org,
> >   arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > 
> > I understand it. If that schema defines a document format and document
> > format cannot be modified then I do not see how software that handles
> > that document format is free. Programmers should be able to improve
> > the format or make it incompatible as it is part of the overall
> > document creation. It is not software but data used by software. Data
> > should be modifiable in my opinion.
> 
> Modifications of a schema produce a file that can no longer be used
> with the same collection of documents and protocols.  So such
> modifications are not useful.  I very much hope that we as a movement
> will not insist on abstract "freedom" to make useless modifications
> just for the sake of modifications.  To me, Free Software movement is
> a pragmatic movement that picks up its fights wisely, and this
> particular fight isn't, it's a Quixotic fight for a useless goal.

That may be. I do not know.

I find it alright to fork various software and change the final format
of a document and produce new software with it. That is why also
schemas should be modifiable. Otherwise it could make all software
producing those documents non-free. I am just not sure if that schema
does what I think it does.

Of course people would not really make useless modifications. There
are reasons why and how modifications are made, why sometimes forks
are necessary.

Libreoffice is itself fork from Openoffice. I do not see it being
useless, now it is everywhere. I cannot even find Openoffice easy. It
is useful.

Then again without all the combinations of useless and useful things
we would not be able to distinguish between each other. Plethora of
people will make some useless things, but some of those useless will
incite other people to make useful things. Those are butterfly
effects, we better not underestimate it.

Some projects will stall. Why does Guile language support Emacs Lisp?
One could say it is useless to create new implementation of Emacs
Lisp. Or new implementation of Common Lisp.

In relation to formats, such should be free and modifiable, people
shall be able to build upon them and create new formats. Some will be
useless some will be useful. But without freedom, we will not even
know it.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-01-25 17:50 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-12-30 16:23 [ELPA] New package: repology.el Nicolas Goaziou
2020-12-30 19:34 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-30 21:01   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-12-31 13:31     ` Jean Louis
2020-12-31 11:46   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-12-31 13:11     ` Jean Louis
2020-12-31 20:30       ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-01  7:31         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-01 10:05         ` Jean Louis
2021-01-01 11:56           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-02  9:56             ` Jean Louis
2021-01-02  5:30           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 12:09             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 14:39               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-04 15:00                 ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-04 16:32                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-05  6:45                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05  8:56                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-07  7:34                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 15:02                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 16:29                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-04 17:08                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 17:12                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-04 17:17                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 17:58                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-04 17:43                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-01-04 17:55                           ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-01-04 18:51                             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-01-04 22:21                               ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-01-05  2:09                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-05  6:42                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05  9:28                                     ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-06  5:03                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06  9:44                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-07 17:51                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 19:14                           ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-04 19:17                             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-01-06  5:02                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 10:58                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-06 14:41                         ` Jean Louis
2021-01-06 14:59                           ` Arthur Miller
2021-01-06 15:21                             ` Jean Louis
2021-01-06 16:23                               ` Arthur Miller
2021-01-06 18:53                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-01-06 19:26                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 21:18                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-06 21:25                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-07  7:47                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07  8:54                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-01-07 14:07                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07  7:49                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 11:41                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-09  6:39                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 10:50                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-07 14:24                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07  8:15                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-01-07 14:37                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 20:36                                   ` Arthur Miller
2021-01-07  7:48                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 16:53                                       ` Arthur Miller
2021-01-14  5:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-15 14:52                                           ` Arthur Miller
2021-01-16  5:14                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07  7:49                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07  9:00                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-01-08  6:21                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 10:55                                     ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-09  6:34                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 21:07                                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-11  4:46                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-12  8:24                                             ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-20  6:14                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-21 11:09                                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-22  6:06                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-22  9:43                                             ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-24  6:35                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-24  8:34                                                 ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-25  5:53                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25  6:52                                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-01-25 12:11                                                       ` Fabrice BAUZAC-STEHLY
2021-01-25 15:29                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-27  7:37                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25 15:51                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-25 17:59                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-01-25 18:21                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-26  3:40                                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-01-26  6:10                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26 13:42                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-27 18:32                                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-01-25 19:33                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-25 19:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26 13:21                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26  5:59                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26 13:15                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-27  7:41                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-24 10:53                                                 ` Org schemas we talked to be non-free, was: " Jean Louis
2021-01-24 17:50                                                   ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-24 19:12                                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-01-24 19:53                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-24 20:36                                                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-25 15:06                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26  6:01                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26 15:57                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26 16:03                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-26 16:13                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26 16:14                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-26 16:31                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26 22:55                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-28  6:29                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-28 14:08                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-29  6:36                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-24 20:47                                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-01-25 15:13                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-25 17:50                                                             ` Jean Louis [this message]
2021-01-25 17:56                                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-01-25 19:27                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26  3:50                                                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-01-26  6:09                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25 20:10                                                             ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-25 20:21                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-26  6:09                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25  5:53                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25 15:27                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-24 20:46                                                       ` tomas
2021-01-27  7:35                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25  5:53                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25  9:27                                                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-26  6:03                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26  9:24                                                             ` Ulrich Mueller
2021-01-27  7:43                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-26 15:43                                                             ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-01-26 16:48                                                             ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-28  6:34                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-25  5:51                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-16  5:21                                       ` freedom issues in free software Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 15:05                                     ` [ELPA] New package: repology.el Stefan Monnier
2021-01-13 15:57                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05  6:33               ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 11:21                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-07  7:32                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-30 21:58 ` [ELPA] New package: repology.el (v2) Nicolas Goaziou
2021-01-04 11:45   ` [ELPA] New package: repology.el (v3) Nicolas Goaziou
2021-01-04 17:32     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-19  9:50       ` [ELPA] New package: repology.el (v4) Nicolas Goaziou
2021-01-20  6:13         ` Richard Stallman

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