From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:06:36 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83sfj5g081.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt9dfvbm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2GF344o89qwWsqrg" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12509"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 30 12:07:32 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1op6A8-000320-9J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:07:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op69Q-0002pd-HI; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 07:06:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op69M-0002nq-Ek for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 07:06:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op69H-00050N-Tb; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 07:06:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=dJ78s9NU2XOO/PyBHudUSAAAAIYmfI7tyPuialkFtVo=; b=F/YFG6iVdsb/xtMTIipB0MkGkY 6zYKBGj3Q96yn5n74YiVI+Vd8RvZYUeke0V7Ls5jpcoHX5U7LZjGzpLp4CjdJglX/5D5DCqVfVJlW Y8fZ1Yn1CRq13851AkbctOOAP+9beCz2q7ct9aQlA2rczYYYBaAICdm8eKsnPZXwzn23blNFCkZo7 vdJE/3ZH+coPAyW5bs1anC3yR172AR6AaKgjzVLMt09VhVVgOjAEirX+Ek0oubCPSbt4Cyf2JdX42 MrDSa/C63WvbpdRbdswS+yGiWudUwSr9iMCEn0Q2R4h8/0AvQu2Psq+IoaMbfpm3FWdDVSM76CDIm UPpC12lA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1op69E-00071K-J1; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:06:36 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83mt9dfvbm.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:298802 Archived-At: --2GF344o89qwWsqrg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:40:45PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:14:10 +0100 > > From: tomas@tuxteam.de > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > >=20 > > > Before everyone starts presenting here that we made some nonsensical > > > decision when we added shorthands, let me remind us that it was added > > > to allow us to use packages like "s" (https://github.com/magnars/s.el= ), > > > "f" (https://github.com/rejeep/f.el) and other similar ones, which use > > > "problematic" function names. We wanted to be able to use packages > > > which have dependencies of those, while at the same time providing > > > reasonably-named aliases for them. (Gerd wasn't around back then, so > > > he is excused, but the rest of us were here, so please let's not > > > pretend those discussions never happened.) > >=20 > > I don't know who you mean by "us". I'm not pretending anything. I do > > know that discussion happened. >=20 > Well, may I suggest that you re-read your message, then? "I had > similar feelings" can be easily interpreted as saying that no one took > such opinions seriously, Perhaps it can be interpreted this way. That interpretation would be wrong. I think it's clear that I didn't articulate those feelings, so that's on me. I hadn't enough "hard reasoning" to be worth presenting. I'm not putting that blame on anyone but me. Please, don't over-interpret. > or maybe that they were not discussed at all. > Which is not what happened. Again, I'm at a loss on how you can read that into my message. > People have short memories. A discussion that happened 2.5 years ago > tends to be restarted for no good reason. You dwell here long enough > to know that. So when you respond to a request from someone who > wasn't here when those discussions happened, my recommendation is to > mention those discussions, so that this one at least had a good chance > of being a continuation of those ones, not a re-iterations of them. Please, Eli. I think Gerd is sufficiently grown up to differentiate between one "I had similar feelings" and what went on in the list, which is in the archives and he has surely gone over. > I'm sorry to be a bit blunt, but the level of noise on this list is > unbearable. I urge everyone to please keep that in mind, and make an > effort to lower the noise. Gerd's thoughts are everything but noise. You know that best. Cheers --=20 t --2GF344o89qwWsqrg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCY15atgAKCRAFyCz1etHa RgfnAJ9bx44E6Ol8hn4FEa1CF6wvKMb+6QCggMqiRcAmOdcDZX1MXBvUSdtuwFg= =k4IN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2GF344o89qwWsqrg--