From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: ndame Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 16:25:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4XvMn7QQudwuCq-3cSOnqK_gBoHnmblv2--PKi2oupbCsZwaxxrzA2Chwb6LEzzg1TYjAJNboC8lwPgw8VA5IhYUBs-Jly9HfTqPtsgZUHg=@protonmail.com> Reply-To: ndame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="122815"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 18:26:21 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUuy5-000Vst-9K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 18:26:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59128 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUuy4-00009e-Ac for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46486) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUuxb-00081f-Py for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:25:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUuxa-0001QS-SE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:25:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40141.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.141]:32808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUuxa-0001Kb-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:25:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1588436745; bh=oLGXSHA7z7tEwLPFdxVouU/A5sJhUyymSWhEtqDL+Go=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Z9HI/Mqqg/Wgl2/TWGJEZmoxJxMBtLOZk0m6oe+Rs5PCI00xQpWPI1DuFBko5lzLl AxKsG8tfEAEKh79PnfxrIel3a0ACdi9ySCswzATbwqaVyFxsd7XCwBUhMA2h+eOFFS UfJgyXOMEG+EWutK9S2zIN6iGyhhnlcP6Ar54c5Q= In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.141; envelope-from=ndame@protonmail.com; helo=mail-40141.protonmail.ch X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 12:25:47 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 185.70.40.141 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248488 Archived-At: > > You can still have Emacs traditional/classic/call-it-whatever > mode and other modes that emulate other text editors. Veterans said they don't like when emacs defaults change and they have to modify their configs to go back to old defaults. The solution discussed recently when if emacs is started without config then it offers modern settings to the user can be a good workaround. This may not work always, because I saw 1-2 line config files created by a given *nix distribution, so in that case the check would fail for new users. So in addition the other suggestion about a big, conspicuous button added to the splash screen should also be implemented. A button with text like "I'm new to emacs, give me friendly settings!" which when pressed sets up emacs to be similar to the usual standards. > It already exists > in Emacs, that is what evil & co does, there is CUA-mode etc. Emacs should have keybinding-themes like in other editors which offer various keybinding variants. E.g in IntelliJ: IntelliJ IDEA automatically selects a predefined keymap based on your envir= onment. Make sure that it matches the OS you are using or select the one th= at matches shortcuts from another IDE or editor you are used to (for exampl= e, Eclipse or NetBeans). https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/configuring-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcut= s.html The tricky thing is these key-themes should be reflected in the documentati= on too, so, for example, you couldn't have hardcoded keys in info, but rather info shou= ld be an active document, that is, when it talks about keys invoking commands the= n it should query the active bindings for the commands and show those to pre= sent a documentation which is consistent with the current keymap-theme.