From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 22:02:13 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0tjufkc.fsf@telefonica.net> <87zh2ehpn0.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19206"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: =?utf-8?B?w5NzY2Fy?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Philip K." Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 20:08:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFg1-0004rt-QE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:08:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47388 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFg0-0002Bc-T5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:08:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50210) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFdQ-0000EV-UF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:05:20 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:50641) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFdO-0002KZ-Ff for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:05:20 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.58]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001DFF7.000000005FD908EB.00006BE9; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:05:15 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87zh2ehpn0.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: 29 X-Spam_score: 2.9 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260910 Archived-At: * Philip K. [2020-12-15 21:49]: > Óscar Fuentes writes: > > Really, this kind of decissions should be based on guidance by UI > > experts. Sadly, it seems that we have none onboard, same as every other > > Free or Open Source projects around (and even most propietary ones). > > They are very scarce. > > Maybe I'm too cynical, but can a non-Emacs UI expert really help with > something as other-worldly as Emacs? And I don't even mean this in an > elitist way, just that it has so many conventions and usage-patterns > from parallel UI traditions, that it might seem easier to just start all > over (which I'm not advocating for). Usability advises by Nielsen can definitely help, see here the outline of a test: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-testing-101/ If we have clear proposal on testing, I can provide the test with 5 people around me and give you results, then few other people can test other few people and provide results. Or one built-in usability survey can be delivered with Emacs or answered straight by people from Help menu. It does not cost more than effort, not money. That would accumulate data over time to know what people need and want and how to improve the interface. Jean