From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some more analysis of the 2020 Emacs User Survey Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:10:40 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87a6tkedw7.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4320"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: Emacs developers To: TEC Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 07 21:14:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxbfX-0000y9-EY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:14:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45250 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxbfW-0008TH-DU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 15:14:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47554) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxbez-00081m-Oy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 15:13:29 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:43801) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxbex-0000pa-Cr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 15:13:29 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.145.49]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000295453.000000005FF76B64.00001626; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 13:13:23 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: TEC , Emacs developers Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87a6tkedw7.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262707 Archived-At: * TEC [2021-01-07 22:39]: > What’s with these modeline people? Disable the modeline but keep > everything else. They’re crazy. That is funny and nicely personalized statement. That is good that you made different analysis with intersections, describing things like: > TUI is massively more popular with Vanilla users > GUI very slightly more popular with Doom/Spacemacs than the rest That is what I meant with "intersections", to find what sets are common to other sets. > Doomers like Ivy, Spacers like Helm Yes, nice expressions. > Error checking > Most vanilla users don’t make mistakes 😉 > Everybody else is fairly similar (mostly flycheck, some rather confident individuals, and a small slice of flymake) With vanilla I have no mistake, be it ice cream or cake. Most of graphs until 1.3.1. I do not find user friendly, not easily understandable. Your text statements are useful. Framework graph shows that many new users are discovering Emacs through Doom and Spacemacs, that I find useful information as maybe those projects could be somehow supported by GNU, or promoted by GNU project, why not, as long as they promote fully free software. Maybe even, GNU could distribute Doom and Spacemacs versions directly, or possible include them in GNU ELPA. > 2.1 Org mode purpose and Emacs improvements and Emacs strengths Great that you made presentation by the tag or word cloud. https://tecosaur.com/public/figures/tm_emacs_strengths_word_cloud.svg Maybe most important insight is the "Emacs learning difficulties" https://tecosaur.com/public/figures/tm_emacs_learning_difficulties_word_cloud.svg where it shows keybindings as main obstacle. In regards to number of Emacs users, I have used Debian popularity package and already found analysis, I believe number is few more millions than what StackOverflow found. You missed the point when you said "The respondents are predominantly on Linux (65%), with most of the rest on MacOS (25%), then a slither on Windows (10%) / BSD (2%). This is a huge Compared to the 2020 StackOverflow Survey, BSD is 20x more prevalent, Linux 2.5x, MacOS 1x, and Windows 0.15x. " as Linux is kernel, while MacOS or Windows are operating systems. You have not even one time mentioned that Emacs is GNU project. I am negatively surprised. The word "GNU" does not exist there even though the piece of software you talk of is named "GNU Emacs" and not just Emacs. Would there be any chance that you change that page and provide reference to GNU project, and original GNU Emacs website? Jean