From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Drop the Copyright Assignment requirement for Emacs Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 07:42:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <3f79ff6e-2471-fa6d-08ff-682afd504eca@yandex.ru> <83v9l29yz3.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8qujs0p.fsf@randomsample> <83lfly9vvs.fsf@gnu.org> <835zd29rjb.fsf@gnu.org> <3c558381-f584-a2e5-972e-007221347f16@yandex.ru> <87tv0c2pxc.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="14812"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: deng@randomsample.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 26 07:43:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdSMr-0003lq-9s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:43:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38442 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdSMq-0003Gk-CN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 01:43:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59490) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdSMN-0002s5-8i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 01:42:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oln040092070056.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.70.56]:38926 helo=EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdSMK-000446-N8; Tue, 26 May 2020 01:42:42 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=lsf7xXxXIhnWkrMk1A7FT4BR2ijUDf6CuLbthMDsyUB3McNG4oEF4ap1wF68/iF8qRy4a1EaADSZUTsQwQKObVx59szzvEiKrRtlbK5pqcoD4d2tB1Ala4CbwcFQ7XNKFjFNzlCM65jyws3LjlXeB16cEgDi+8iE3Y8v9jucpzB7ovcKZSMYE7Nlx4VHEpZ22vBXVKZgIWBv1wn+WBAtW6HS7R/WnSxM+WZ3NjySoEuaKJBFxmGJZNADbyOfGhRYGLkxDNkBLEulUM1OtAZlue+IiBlxjnrVUXFu/tbf6uWAzYq3BB/O9KojOoXjmGIjlskAJ97Z5icXbpUMHUYh+g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9cWdLD6EplYzUclfjOwe1oS/8KSD5rOQ5mudpxU/f8w=; b=eRwMthvzgcYkRbY467kjHH3RJlFbrDoRup4J4L5MBOJbdb6P83PqMYUhef5ALgmR1yEpE7EBpJ5x2AsCGCg8oYUuDdXhSoyBBJLKz4VD63lw6dG6WujhXZ15TB4i4TWRfpTaXznf/wiC5AwGWdKz5cyvlEdPcw7P+l4aK5HR3q9G1l1XxLuM9R8G9PqiCTaNkV03T6Z1ortP/Dj0ga7iLCughZjCrYJpOYqA23t4JEWebdMTM9SBxoH8bmCN9lGOmXzE3q4Jr2n3WnQoFy83x4WW0bn4zyDSn/kvhjbZiUieuFv33z3tsI4OPiRpWrd1es68qsY3wRz74eaE/g0bUQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=live.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=live.com; dkim=pass header.d=live.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9cWdLD6EplYzUclfjOwe1oS/8KSD5rOQ5mudpxU/f8w=; b=nW0MxhmT6q6yMjjIipCMLL4kxS6wEdVNOyxO3+EwiHZ8angvOu5pfCugNrNPziNx63kLlEoT8NSwqZS1FccEBJoG9Xe5QGeMveTyUE/TiVGu9T4WqUe51V7CerdBSpOkBOIGns0iI9qQLSbqK52ITPdxEShKEXWmRDNcWwUFgKQLQ0OTYGOyxiJFcR5uISmrUeMWpbv1C7VT9STILg9gjd4cFNl2gt3E01zttGL9DsFDMNmoH2IfZ23l4grMTIJrRbf4IgIOYNXDuaZkl6C8A8YovowNcU2l1oaaYoCExbeKy0GQfQ1IMIxr0HLT7FFxYSf1R6kR4EMvXw6iyq+knQ== Original-Received: from VE1EUR03FT057.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e09::52) by VE1EUR03HT245.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e09::289) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23; Tue, 26 May 2020 05:42:36 +0000 Original-Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e09::4e) by VE1EUR03FT057.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e09::379) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 26 May 2020 05:42:36 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:86023CE61891FD9D2A3BBF11CF592A01FBBD3CD69CDBCE9E31DC9331C95B409A; UpperCasedChecksum:47F50CC31F7690EAFC5EEF03A40D5A0B9EFF22DD6DB3B7CD2ABFD48CAC6B22DF; SizeAsReceived:8788; Count:48 Original-Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::49f0:2314:a959:bec5%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3021.029; Tue, 26 May 2020 05:42:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 26 May 2020 00:13:22 -0400") X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6PR0202CA0053.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:3a::30) To VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:ac::17) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87o8qbs14l.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (90.230.29.56) by AM6PR0202CA0053.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:3a::30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.24 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 26 May 2020 05:42:35 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87o8qbs14l.fsf@live.com> X-TMN: [puqapXXBBtKipGZfEfNMgRxULN8heLHG] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 48 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 7cf6906d-7b59-48e7-fad7-08d801379804 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VE1EUR03HT245: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: fsK+e4fRZvZmxUUM816FN2jTS3apuIncHrTNSMM/lVTYJA7dqLwhHJB7EE3+6Gy8bamdqTkt3dIG9DqF2SbPc9D6radHKDDcLxkLR3hysd+cOcvmkQMbHZ5QmAwiDm2CHlxUKV+QotMTEN+vgMX0G1iwviivRZD3TGtOUgs/wipKQkkl3xfMYjuVpCLq4JXpecXwuYCKcC0U9sD5qMpI9g== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: GvQrTBSPlPhQN5ltLiTsv+zyQdH8jD75pj0kcSAeJlCf6PWA7kclNAhf63xsqMOEGIQY0PTK0FaL2jc4SqlzJF/W+U2/SkL9AodxCxV1vnAPCBV7tzx0kWyHzNbflDIfdwW5wDC8C07P9j+EdGmJ2w== X-OriginatorOrg: live.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7cf6906d-7b59-48e7-fad7-08d801379804 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2020 05:42:36.5329 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR03HT245 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.92.70.56; envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/26 01:42:37 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251428 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > That does not make sense, if you want them to disappear we need to > > talk about them on how to replace them with open source tools, which > > is my goal in this discussion. > > Discussing how to replace a nonfree program with a free program (not > "open source") is a useful thing to do. This would not be the right > place to discuss it, unless the program is closely related to Emacs. > > However, talking about _using_ the nonfree program is a different thing. There are a lot of non-free programs which can't be replaced easily, at least currently and it does not really makes sense to ignore them either. For example I haven't heard or seen of free programs (in GNU sense) that control life-supporting hardware for medical use, industrial machines and robots, vechicle controlling systems and such. Sure one could write such software but companies that produce the hardware does not, and that will probably not change in very near future. If people working for those companies or in activities involving such hardware/software, say in some hospital, and would like to use Emacs (or other GNU software) to develop possibly but non-necessary free or "open source" applications to work with/alongside non-free what should they do? Isn't it unnecessary hard on them to not be able to talk about non-free software? Isn't it also a limitation on GNU software itself if it can't be used in such cases as well as further inclination for development of non-free software?