From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Write a new package" culture instead of patches? Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 00:02:52 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <405FCFAB-30E4-4F98-81DA-3B09933E86D0@gnu.org> <20200517211403.GA57036@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="85981"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rms@gnu.org, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , pcr910303@icloud.com, Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, Stefan Kangas To: Alan Third Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 00:19:56 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaRdU-000MEs-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/17 18:02:56 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250677 Archived-At: Alan Third writes: > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 11:52:18AM -0700, Stefan Kangas wrote: >> >> Has anyone else thought about this? Is it correct to say that such a >> "package first" culture has developed? If yes, why has it developed, >> and is there anything we could do about it? > > I wonder if it's related to the way that a couple of years ago many of > the discussions on the Emacs reddit seemed to revolve around why the > Emacs maintainers hadn't yet fixed someone's pet bug, but nobody ever > thought to report it to us. Could it rather be that a "github" culture has evolved, together with social media it makes + melpa it makes it relatively easy to fork someone's work, change/fix what bother you and make your own package under other name. There was recent reddit thread where some guy posted new search/completion framework. Reason was nothing suites him. On the github page he went through all the different frameworks already avialable (some of which I didn't even hear off) concluding that Helm was the only "resonable" pne, but was so big so he prefer to write his own. Another factor is that maybe original author does not wish to bend his/her package according to what someone wishes, and that someone forks and patches the original according to own desire under different name. I don't know, seems a little bit so. Github and flexible licensing made it easy to fork other peoples work, social media like Reddit & Twitter made it easy to spread the word about it and Melpa makes it easy to share (in case of Emacs). I don't think it has anything Emacs devs not fixing something, it is just emerging social dev trend. Also more people are technically skilled nowadays (millenials) and we more programmers or hobby programmers then probably ever before.