From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A new user perspective about "Changes for emacs 28" Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 13:29:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1ca462fa-0f9e-3c18-6386-f43f49388b2f@gmail.com> <20200907180812.5tfylspp7i6vl4o3@Ergus> <94fda087-a61b-356d-4bb4-791907593246@yandex.ru> <24302cf8-5ac8-4abd-83ce-3e33c51a8beb@default> <83k0x4mjsv.fsf@gnu.org> <831rjcmgn8.fsf@gnu.org> <897b82c2-8ec2-60c0-f5c3-5ab98f79fbd8@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14617"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, nicola.manca85@gmail.com, ams@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 13:30:30 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGhGA-0003hh-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 07:29:44 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255144 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > As you can see from the recent messages, a lot of users prefer undo-tree or even > undo-only+undo-redo rather than the default undo. Yes, but as I understand the situtaion a lot of users, usually those that are new to Emacs does not get at the start how Emacs undo works, and they resort to something simpler they are familiar with. That is why I suggested to start talking about non-destructive text editing to emphasize more on how undo feature in Emacs works. I see no problems with having to different undo-mechanisms either, the original one, and one simpler. Simpler could work as people are used from other applications and could be default, and could be disabled by setting some nil value for some variable so experienced user can use original undo. Undo tree as a visualisation is very cool feature, and could be one of unique Emacs features, if it could visualise any undo/redo history. I don't use undo-tree myself, but I think that graphical representation of undo history is a cool even if mostly gimmicky.