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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/24 09:45:11 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251315 Archived-At: xristos writes: > A lot of Emacs users, even old users, don't see Emacs as anything more th= an > an editor and haven't been exposed to the "moldable information processin= g > tool" way of thinking. This should be addressed by us doing everything we > can to shorten the time needed for a new user to first be fully exposed > to this paradigm and subsequently ignite the molding process. Completely agree on that one! > I see Jo=C3=A3o admit that he's not familiar with a lot of the C-h comman= ds. > This is a problem that should be easy to fix. I've long seen the Emacs > tutorial as unnecessarily narrow-minded in its focus on text editing. > Richard mentioned a robot game but I suggest the tutorial be reworked > instead to be much more extensive. It should first lay out the models tha= t > make Emacs powerful and then through exercises expose the user to said > models and reinforce the central paradigm. Yes, indeed, you are onto something here. It would be nice if there were different smaller tutorials, for example one for text, one for file managing, one for email etc. I guess everybody could agree with that, and probably only reason why it didn't happened yet is because somebody actually have to produce those, which is not as trivial as it might sound, I guess. There are some floating resources, tutorial-like blog posts, some YT content etc. I don't know if Emacs could link to those as extra resources etc. When we already speak about tutorial, I think it could pick up shortcuts uses have and automatically show those instead of saying something like "default shortcut changed" or something similar, I don't remember any more what it says. Is that very hard to do? > That should include familiarization with all introspective commands, > configuration and customization, how buffers and processes work, and a > practical introduction to Emacs Lisp, including showing IELM and what one > can do inside it (e.g. Set working buffer). Yeah, a tutorial on help, a tutorial och semantic navigation, a tutorial on remote editing, etc. A set of more focused shorter tutorials. But as said I am affraid that the problem is that somebody has to put voluntarily work into making this, which might take substantial time. > I think this would go a long way towards letting users have a glimpse of > the possibilities on offer. Sure, I agree.