From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: arthur miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: A modern-mode? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:11:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v9ge3tet.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83bli57dug.fsf@gnu.org> , <20200916213609.GA635@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_VI1PR06MB45268195124E86210E366331963E0VI1PR06MB4526eurp_" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22967"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "self@gkayaalp.com" , "akrl@sdf.org" , Eli Zaretskii , "mardani29@yahoo.es" , emacs-devel To: Alan Third , Thibaut Verron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 17 02:12:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIhWs-0005rg-MS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:12:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51096 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIhWr-0007M4-Kw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:12:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44674) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIhW4-0006vn-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:11:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-db8eur06olkn2103.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.51.103]:44231 helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIhVz-00031W-Ql; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:11:12 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=SpPGXEqxHIIAw9evTyD4G3jKrPzxU9dMBZtHh7ZNVltUj7NBsUxx/gfhwZekhqRr2Y4USSzrvIy7b+7O0Cuk+fnRqVnKrU5f0Fjbmlu98w/5qzn0kUrDS+YYOLlYgZluXUvETUdHzLV4iLAjo2gCSrIlEuGnGCKqoPRZTfQ1jAthPyCy78yK+nnixTjw5Ew3crndpIX3UOmGqVX59b2yB2JkZ651tRack5ZgTLLJOG3nGb0zURo1SCl21xHr1uny7VrSBhJdGqVLL81n+7mgzGcJ29h1VNy5HVYapNTWT333ZlMMmbe5F95nzJ0SCYfoBBx2Q52Q3XKmRBuegI+raQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=U3j2ctKgFcpGldO5yVM+Fme8fEJNfY+yOmtIT3tDEtY=; b=KhLIZkvTLd2igwW9YgNLtZ2FsnhOcrW7f5mByS79hrknjOLQf6cvBansyF880le6f72wJ1qMzwrsr48wYBLo9gUc5g4kV3iP7bQespzO9t71k2Dp5/r1DQqYiiIKWCzuhv/jKXn1rboKjSwP0mEZ2UdNZ853fafNkljks/vCd5kVIza4lztVK1i3K8pKCQBTJzNwZZ+DaYD3Mfr1+gjfTajPhcm7uAcXssWYitn8Wj58TOr6rfZDkYpOZx7F3vDiVZc+IZ+JnsdhWA3HVufOdjV3ywTrIle5ew+/wJgp96FmPLDNTvyW/BXo2rgmcJWZiCY4Z1/Vt7KiiD7/k3pbYw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=live.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=U3j2ctKgFcpGldO5yVM+Fme8fEJNfY+yOmtIT3tDEtY=; b=bwDG9ewzels4sQCAjI+o4b4iQ5PyWgasp+6522GMdee/BcHZlPwLMTakUDkTV1KmdewNFZp2qhZuNLQU1Ngfp7AevQSN2eDBXiKUuSx5yaKTDnEPohwk8LBKjh+ZKvcU1gd5hXMrVZ2mXT3wFqDErg8HMxI5l+YsF9dszjLsWztYK/evPO0JrFqQcdUJ2jlmNj+h6JKiEaTpq4B3kGbv6RlN0hsfS5IBHP04klLdui3p6v6DAS/HYYEPv1XOZIjygzkrmdvHsSywyofX4OTIBz7pbnWA7i1gYEZMBIEYEQoc8N2koNLWOUJGEZq2enVCIFrmv+Znal7GBrqJcmtwKg== Original-Received: from DB8EUR06FT050.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc35::41) by DB8EUR06HT250.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc35::72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3370.16; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:11:05 +0000 Original-Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc35::51) by DB8EUR06FT050.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc35::195) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.15 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:11:04 +0000 Original-Received: from VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b547:51cd:16c5:4487]) by VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b547:51cd:16c5:4487%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3370.019; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:11:04 +0000 Thread-Topic: A modern-mode? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255945 Archived-At: --_000_VI1PR06MB45268195124E86210E366331963E0VI1PR06MB4526eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isn't what you describe just ordinary Emacs usage? I mean we use Emacs, we= grow out of default features and turn off/on stuff after hand as our knowl= edge and skills ? By the way, why would anyone turn off features and then recreate them in th= eir init file? It seems like very convoluted use case to me. -------- Originalmeddelande -------- Fr=E5n: Alan Third Datum: 2020-09-16 23:37 (GMT+01:00) Till: Thibaut Verron Kopia: self@gkayaalp.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel , mardani29@yahoo.es, akrl@sdf.org =C4mne: Re: A modern-mode? On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:02:20PM +0200, Thibaut Verron wrote: > I don't think that I'm the only one with this understanding, see for > example the earlier post suggesting the name newbie-mode (synonymous > to beginner-mode for me) with the idea that users would eventually > grow out of this mode, like training wheels. I don't consider any of > the suggested settings to be training wheels. It's the use of the theme (or mode) that's expected to be "grown out of". As the user progresses they'll discover they like this, but they don't like that, and now they have to make the choice of whether to disable the theme and just enable the features they want in their init.el, or enable the theme and try to disable the features they don't want in their init.el. I think the latter option is less desirable and probably harder to achieve. Perhaps the theme should come with documentation explaining what you need to add to your init.el to achieve the same effects. -- Alan Third --_000_VI1PR06MB45268195124E86210E366331963E0VI1PR06MB4526eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Isn't what you describe just ordinary Emacs usage?  = I mean we use Emacs, we grow out of default features and turn off/on stuff = after hand as our knowledge and skills ?

By the way, why would anyone turn off features and then r= ecreate them in their init file? It seems like very convoluted use case to = me.



-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Fr=E5n: Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org>
Datum: 2020-09-16 23:37 (GMT+01:00)
Till: Thibaut Verron <thibaut.verron@gmail.com>
Kopia: self@gkayaalp.com, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-de= vel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>, mardani29@yahoo.es, akrl@sdf.org
=C4mne: Re: A modern-mode?

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:02:20PM +0200, Thibaut = Verron wrote:
> I don't think that I'm the only one with this understanding, see for > example the earlier post suggesting the name newbie-mode (synonymous > to beginner-mode for me) with the idea that users would eventually
> grow out of this mode, like training wheels. I don't consider any of > the suggested settings to be training wheels.

It's the use of the theme (or mode) that's expected to be "grown out of". As the user progresses they'll discover they like this, but they<= br> don't like that, and now they have to make the choice of whether to
disable the theme and just enable the features they want in their
init.el, or enable the theme and try to disable the features they
don't want in their init.el. I think the latter option is less
desirable and probably harder to achieve.

Perhaps the theme should come with documentation explaining what you
need to add to your init.el to achieve the same effects.
--
Alan Third

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