From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:24:58 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87y2lkb6kb.fsf@gmail.com> <9A4FA038-CCFD-45DF-8B57-E348AFF951D9@gmail.com> <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7s6c31d.fsf@gmail.com> <87mu1xrjqw.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <48ed4897-356c-4669-a330-1fdb5d65402b@default> <83lfhhijbl.fsf@gnu.org> <871rj9uz12.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <1d991f36-1cc7-d801-6cfb-bfd5541efc77@yandex.ru> <515af795-9cb7-b92f-340c-d3a80645684e@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14120"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 14:26:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH4bn-0003Xp-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR06-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 08:25:00 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255323 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 11.09.2020 14:00, Arthur Miller wrote: >> Dmitry Gutov writes: >>=20 >>> On 11.09.2020 00:21, Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions= . wrote: >>>> I'm not a maintainer, but FWIW my opinion is that what will most likel= y happen >>>> is that they will never agree to do this.=C2=A0 Menus are not "modern"= . >>> >>> That's certainly the current trend in Emacs customizations, but it's no= t a >>> universal rule. >>> >>> VS Code has a traditional menu. Atom has a menu. Visual Studio and Inte= lliJ IDEA >>> of course have them too. >> When I used to make money by programming VBA with MS Office and C++ with >> VStudio I used to turn off all toolbars and menus I could. Back then >> computer screens where much smaller then today, and even today I still >> fight for vertical screen estate on my computer. > > I do too. But menus should be helpful for newcomers (and when they are no= t, we > should improve them). So having "starter kits" disable the menus right aw= ay > seems counter-productive. Yeah I agree; I got it clarified you ment starter kits when you thought about "distros". > BTW, the Unity DE and Sublime Text editor included an alternative UI for = menus, > where you hit a key (Alt, in the case of Unity) and then fuzzy match on c= ommand > description. Ok; I didn't know. I am using Rofi to achieve this in X11/OS and Helm in Emacs. >> For that reason, on my home computer I run a WM without decorations, Ema= cs >> without any gui elements more then main gui window, Firefox & Gimp with >> menus and gui hidden etc. I have never used IntellliJ software, but I >> guess they will give you option to maximize the working area by >> disabling the gui items too. >> Anyway, I don't think GUI should be disabled by default; that should be = left >> to >> the user. I am really curious which distro you run :-)? > > I use Ubuntu with GNOME and the Unite extension which emulates Unity to t= he best > extent possible. That means removing application title bars when the app = is > maximized, moving their contents (such as menus) to the top panel when po= ssible. > > So it's the kind of changes as you did, but to a smaller extent. I understand; yes it sounds pretty much what I except the top-level bar. Last time I logged into a Gnome or KDE session was like 4 years agoI think. Thanks for the answer.