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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/10 09:37:40 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252818 Archived-At: writes: > On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 07:58:02PM -0500, sergio hernandez wrote: >> Hi people, I have a concern of the use of a language derived of scheme h= ow >> Lisp or Guile. > > > It's the other way around. LISP (written in all caps, it*s *that* > old) is the grandmother. Born around 1958 [1], it is one of the > oldest programming languages around. Nevertheless, it's still > young, having adapted to almost every change of its environments > (and those has changed a lot, believe me). > > If you want to get a first impression on LISP, have a look at [2], > which is a paper book, but perhaps some library around you carries > it. The web site is funny, though :) Just as a curiosa, I am currently reading a book about early Lisp history, by K. Majorinc, title roughly translated into English "As Powerful as Possible". Page 38, has some quite detailed history bits. Below is an excerpt together with some bibliography: "McCarthy and Minsky, then working at american MIT, started in September 19= 58. work on project ARTIFICAL INTELLIGENCE (47). The work was relatively well documented with numerous articles and presented at conferences and in inter= ne documents, Artifical Intelligence Memo (AIM), Research Laboratory of Electr= onic, Quaterly progress report (RLE QPR) and by student works. "The Uncle" (48, 4= 9), McCarthy was, following the examples of projects LOGIC THEORY MACHINE - *IP= L** and GEOMETRY THEOREM MACHINE - *FLPL*, intended to develop an "expert system", = ADVICE TAKER (50), and a programming language for "manipulation with symbolic expressions" in which the system would be written (51). After the presentat= ion to the public, despite McCarthy not abandoning the ADVICE TAKER, the work d= ied out and is barely mention in numerous intern and published documents (53, 5= 4). The programming language, was on contrary, intensely developed. In the beginning described just as "an algebraic language for the manipulat= ion of symbolic expressions" (55) and "symbol manipulating language" (56), the language soon got name "LISP (List Processer)" (57), and somewhat later, "L= ISP (List Procesiing) ..." 47 Stoyan, Early LISP history (1956-59), 1984., p. 304. 48 Levy, Hackers, 2010., p. 36. 49 =E2=80=9CThe teacher was a distant man with a wild shock of hair and an equally unruly beard =E2=80=94 John McCarthy. A master mathemati=C2=AD cian, McCarthy was a classically absent-minded professor; stories abounded about his habit of suddenly answering a question hours, sometimes even days after it was first posed to him.=E2=80=9D=20 Levy, Hackers, 2010., p. 11. 50 McCarthy, Programs with common sense, 1959., p. 75-92. 51 McCarthy & Minsky, Artificial Intelligence in RLE QPR 052, 1959., p. 129= . 52 McCarthy, Situations, actions and causal laws, 1963., p. 1. 53 =E2=80=9CThe main problem in realizing the Advice Taker has been devisin= g suitable formal languages covering the subject matter about which we want the program to think.=E2=80=9D McCarthy, A basis for mathematical theory of computation, 1963., p. 69. 54 Stoyan je nezavisno rekonpuirao Advice Taker in Programmiermethoden der K=C3=BCnstlichen Intelligenz, 1988., p. 193-231. 55 McCarthy, An algebraic language ..., AIM-001, 1958., p. 1. 56 McCarthy, A revised definition of maplist, AIM-002, 1958., p. 1. 57 McCarthy, Revisions of the language, AIM-004, 1959., p. 9. Some links to mentioned papers. Can't find aim-002: [1] https://monoskop.org/images/c/cb/Majorinc_Kazimir_Mocan_koliko_je_god_m= oguce.pdf [2] http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/MIT/AIM-001.pdf [3] http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/MIT/AIM-004.pdf FLPL: https://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/flpl.html And some more Lisp history: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/