From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 18:55:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <651bbe21-f179-730a-4f10-7dc6d27055ea@gmail.com> <835yfa6qm2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3584"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "rms@gnu.org" , "gerd.moellmann@gmail.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 20 19:56:40 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1owpUd-0000n4-NW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:300265 Archived-At: > > FWIW, I'd (passively) like to see this topic progress. >=20 > What kind of progress? Is deciding that we don't (yet) need packages in > Emacs Lisp going to be considered "progress" in your opinion? To me, progress on the question would include more investigation and discussion. It's not just about deciding. But if such a decision has already been made, so be it. I didn't realize that the question was closed. > > If Richard, Gerd, and whomever else would lock > > themselves together in a room (virtual or real) for > > a weekend and come to senses & consensus, that > > might result in a Hallelujah, maybe even a Eureka!, > > moment. Might or might not. In lieu of that room, > > there's this thread... >=20 > Sorry, but it isn't just up to Richard and Gerd. =20 Sorry, but I didn't say or suggest that _anything_ was up to Richard and Gerd, let alone just up to them. > As I wrote at the > beginning of this thread, I'm not convinced we need this kind of > functionality in Emacs Lisp (and I explained why I thought so). What kind of functionality is "this kind"? Would you mind repeating that, if you explained it, and summarizing your "why" - or else point to where you've already done that? If you decided (e.g., at the outset) that this kind of functionality isn't needed, I guess I missed that announcement. But what kind? Just CL packages, or anything at all that resembles them? Or any attempt to improve handling of namespaces? Certainly, if there's no problem then there's no need to look for a solution. I didn't realize that the premise had been decided. > Until someone comes up with convincing arguments, I still submit that add= ing > this kind of complexity into Emacs internals for the sake of functionalit= y > that is not really needed is not a good idea. (And no, "CL has it" is no= t a > convincing argument in my book.) I see. So be it. Did someone say that "CL has it" is a convincing argument for why Elisp should have it - whatever you might think "it" is? I don't think so. In any case, given that you're not yet convinced of a need/use for better namespace control, and given that Gerd's given up, I guess that if there is such a need/benefit then the question will be off the table for a while. Thanks for making this clear - I missed it.