From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Names are not descriptions; descriptions are not names Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 13:31:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3b4a24a3-2d12-16d3-d905-7794ed4269b1@alphapapa.net> <874joi9jav.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12114"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 12 15:33:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pxStN-0002tu-MR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 May 2023 15:33:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxSsZ-0002Fy-Oi; Fri, 12 May 2023 09:32:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxSsX-0002Ez-2C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 May 2023 09:32:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxSsU-0001SW-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 May 2023 09:32:12 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246629.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 34C8jMnT022011; Fri, 12 May 2023 13:32:03 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=8JpvmDbKeZDQgjRIiSVDtE+jyOHzWrxZVf/gEE8MnGE=; b=wy6VgCB01t0aetRP9sCuuz8yd1zCYIcQYMpBHys44d7raJldd/orxPZ3cBenGplEAvuS FlQwuXTxomFIeZIoG2j4YRGBoc7vhRKsOmBsAO7xtt0XurtrxoVjixJqjwB0LW6lIaAf OkkfJDgLRkSLTUlkYpvJR8a3dp3RJ+AI9+E9yHpft4kUVzpKRVrs6AC73J3avw4ndCEF Hn/g+8PWIYjdwMwSh1C8J6xDDXuyR2DuCZVXvu9NXte8ybz16raKSqbiBLDnKuT2JCUV 1r+uenPMFnzZiNiTpx1c+rNlq3cii/MXX08cANji8YLV2UdluqM44X/eRUXoAAne0cip DQ== Original-Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3qf7792bm0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 12 May 2023 13:32:03 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 34CDAeWh014558; Fri, 12 May 2023 13:32:02 GMT Original-Received: from nam12-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12lp2174.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.174]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3qf830tns5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 12 May 2023 13:32:02 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=E3UOy9Cxfm510KNyueVPUhwdUg2vZjB4fXJE8L1ZRJ+YyGSt7eWds2KkycLettKzWtRAH6ElUAvq9dhDHWmvWVxnezWLkj+0ZNiDXpjDXdUctBiDk4Z0UfJ/zBdLUiW5aXk/et0zzWIPQjjXTJ8on4qkW5bSNGLnLM8ApFSIEw/IKWh4+m9b/cv59qAYkbr1LFTPTaO1u9uxX/P5MGq4We2+ZW/xgEoNHGm2Gm6Jd5xg1yRcGt3y460MaHsE8Dzx3u2ljNzjgd7NUN18yOGYqvB764wDVORrqs4r1uZRh0QcAvDr3me7Tsud86ukIVEus4+2RWHr8mz+BWeKZwcnew== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=8JpvmDbKeZDQgjRIiSVDtE+jyOHzWrxZVf/gEE8MnGE=; b=SKyQfmH+FxD5d+rVKxvtRTpX6bcstm10mHVtU+ha4WJFqmDUABVVSSh2OukCAQcP0iVTz32UZq80APT/U4jhYadA8XVEpckYDHXI8ybo7f1osSxfTc03XhQOgSy3mxcxWq8slB5iNpuH5GzES6vEVZaOQxKSbKRtnsz+2/7Wtcu2tSSCsK1YGYLzcvT1hsnjCgo8OOTJI2ZFt0vxEL+tHD5OMtz8rbuybk4zS2KWiLPh3D351GLw60BPzC8Tb8y4ThLgCi7ajCtj78Qm5zYdaojoEViKdwFMEKz9HTXKCwSU3zcQVLycdxbAe3lP+M3OtEgjGXzL2GxCHFRN2eIM8A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=8JpvmDbKeZDQgjRIiSVDtE+jyOHzWrxZVf/gEE8MnGE=; b=s1paaarwVFLSC/NgwnRMIs/PZHHaL0ObzSjg9qj+iAS1HhafP7HodjQGe02VKWIE5RUGKx7o9vtG+kS5zW+UlI6B9yXAAnksAq1qf803AhLuoaSoSpY+NQY8VDvrC6UTfu7Kj5FbJfjoGzTZnvHSOChWcnSvJF0tMToPIfwGPZU= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by IA0PR10MB6868.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:432::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6387.22; Fri, 12 May 2023 13:31:59 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a995:2ae5:2745:24ff]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a995:2ae5:2745:24ff%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6387.024; Fri, 12 May 2023 13:31:59 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: Names are not descriptions; descriptions are not names Thread-Index: AQHZhKXqktI9ezKMrkOLlR1jT8N3oq9Wn/8g In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|IA0PR10MB6868:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1bee08e3-7d7e-4ce8-a17f-08db52ed4397 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230028)(346002)(376002)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(451199021)(2906002)(86362001)(71200400001)(41300700001)(122000001)(55016003)(9686003)(26005)(6506007)(186003)(38070700005)(44832011)(8676002)(5660300002)(33656002)(8936002)(7696005)(38100700002)(52536014)(558084003)(478600001)(66446008)(64756008)(66476007)(76116006)(316002)(6916009)(4326008)(66556008)(66946007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?VTJZWENWbHVGMEk4WUZGZXEyRFphL2t4Y0hxZzkwUzVYN2ZlZFZVbTRRUCsz?= =?utf-8?B?OHhuZnR6dWxJblJkVWk4b0NGZ29yY1JUcEN2a1hiUTRqeDZkTlNUamcrUmFT?= =?utf-8?B?VkNLRUdMelkwYkltNlRQOXlLcTR2TllzQWptc3NkOUUxQldPUVZjekNBWGdl?= =?utf-8?B?Tis3WXZsRFR0dmp5TnpmakhrSnorV1poWnMxQ2FUQWlFNGFBNDVib2wwWGwy?= =?utf-8?B?UFBDN0ducHdNT3dxa0tpcEdVYnZwZU04N3k1QitJWWdLL3VqU0Q3d3N0VzFv?= =?utf-8?B?VUlGSVRvZ2x2UlBoQmlCVS92eUZMcVozNkZ3VC9Xc2VMc0crZGRuSW9XbDR4?= =?utf-8?B?ZVh6N2ZVakpFZzd0US90RWQ5S2tYRnVlMFhNMXpjM3Y1MWZ5V1JiTktvN3N6?= =?utf-8?B?LzhKMGhwQXZBMHZJS0k3bUVOcGkrMmRKVm5mVTRQSERVdi9waEhvbWpjZnh4?= =?utf-8?B?czJuUXI2SUdLSzNSaEgxNVZrQmd5U1h6cjdRbDRjQkpYSERKYTRxK2pOVUFW?= =?utf-8?B?eDU5SkYwc3ZZcVlYT1cwZWV3WEoyc2lmTHBsZjBsNWxBalQ2K2pBRmhZNGdZ?= =?utf-8?B?K3pqVGh6YUJoWUxZMnU4WkZtT1dZVXlxelo2a2xjTWI2VW1yMWdYOWdnZ0Ju?= =?utf-8?B?OHRBa24rZ3hBYW5laE5oY1hlUUNBOG0vcVBLdk X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 oTDL5aV+/HQrQoV951r4NVTHaZJ4CVxWP8/dzRDQ== X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1bee08e3-7d7e-4ce8-a17f-08db52ed4397 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 May 2023 13:31:59.7692 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: y/0ogaiwPIozkxv6uTUpEFNB/W6gsCYaqr91apL7zYjdCJHTi0aqJGhtOTLqSyazQxTvBC5RchuZ7fwfynwGXA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA0PR10MB6868 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.942,Hydra:6.0.573,FMLib:17.11.170.22 definitions=2023-05-12_08,2023-05-05_01,2023-02-09_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=697 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2304280000 definitions=main-2305120113 X-Proofpoint-GUID: RJwZyW2wMty6ZKJKt8PuPafQzrGXVGB4 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: RJwZyW2wMty6ZKJKt8PuPafQzrGXVGB4 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.165.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306081 Archived-At: PiA+IEF0b20gUG9ydGVyIHdyaXRlczoNCj4gPg0KPiA+PiBOYW1lcyBhcmUgbm90IGRlc2NyaXB0 aW9uczsgZGVzY3JpcHRpb25zIGFyZSBub3QgbmFtZXMNCj4gPiBUaGV5IHNob3VsZCBiZS4NCj4g DQo+IFRoZW4gc2hvdWxkbid0IHdlIHJlbmFtZSBFbWFjcz8NCg0KQXRvbSdzIGFscmVhZHkgYmVl biBuYW1lZCAoYW5kIGRlcHJlY2F0ZWQpLiA7LSkNCg0KDQpPaCwgdGhlIHRyZWFjaGVyeSBvZiBu YW1lcyENClRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGEgbmFtZS4NCg==