From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 03:18:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89kw0hl.fsf@gnus.org> <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> <874kbbznwv.fsf@gmail.com> <8735qvwcqt.fsf@gmail.com> <877dg65j3d.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmtyezjr.fsf@gmail.com> <87zgt1t4mg.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20474"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Fleischer , Arthur Miller , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 29 05:19:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mKBLj-00054a-NR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273369 Archived-At: > >> For younger people, I suspect part of it is just a perception of email > >> as being old and outdated and not fitting as well with their 'style' o= f > >> communication, which tends to be about short messages and group chat i= n > >> near 'real time'. > > > > Shiny New Toy syndrome, aka Flavor Of The Month. > > (Not at all limited to youth, of course.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Sadly, I think comments like this are all too > frequent from us oldies. "Comments like these" is facile dismissal. > They feel simplistic, overly dismissive and > somewhat arrogant.=20 That's exactly what that comment you just made feels like. Your complaint does what it complains about. > For youth, nearly everything is shiny and new > - we forget that for us, email was shiny and > new once upon a time. I don't forget it. It's you who laid this on "younger people", not I. Your description. > The difference could just as easily be due > to us 'old dogs' failing to learn new tricks > and failing to recognise the evolution in social > interaction brought about by new technologies. I don't see it as old vs new dogs. There are plenty of old dogs who new-trick all the time. Shiny New Toy syndrome doesn't respect age. The toys might differ on average for different age groups, but that's about all. > If it is just the flavour of the month, it is > a very long month and I see little evidence of > that flavour becoming stale. I'm sure it will > continue to evolve, but feel it is very unlikely > to go back the other way. Define "back the other way". What dichotomy are you hinting at: email versus ____? What's the flavor you're talking about? Everything other than email? Or a particular thing, such as Slack? Wait and see how long any particular remains in the Top 10. There's not really anything new about "short messages and group chat" versus long messages and one-on-one. What's new (and ever-changing) are the possible forms. Or if you mean social media powerhouses such as Facebook then sure, there's no Facebook of the month. Yesterday's shiny new Instagram is just Facebook. It'll likely be a while before Facebook and Google go the way of old IBM. ___ There's a difference between (1) being attracted to something new and (2) being distracted toward whatever pops into the field of view and away from what was noticed a millisecond ago. #2 is what Shiny New Toy Syndrome is about. And no, as I said, the malady is _not at all_ limited to youth. Its underlying, unseen foundation is _commercial_. We (of all ages) succumb to it in part because what appears on the shelves changes. ___ Anyway, this is fairly off-topic now. Your point was about youth's perception of email as "old". My point was that a view of things as "old" can be a sign of Shiny New Toy syndrome - a relentless, overwhelming appetite for "new". That's not youth; it's market society. (And no, not everyone is infected to the same degree.)