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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295534 Archived-At: > It only pops up when I hit a prefix key and then > don't know what to do. Yes, +1 for this possibility. Though `C-h' after a prefix key is similar. But the same "What keys can I use in the current context, and what do they do?" question can arise at top level. It's not just about prefix keys. And it's good to have the choice of whether to have such stuff pop up automatically (after a delay) or to just hit a key anytime to pop it up _on demand_. Especially important for top-level. `keysee.el' lets you do these things (top-level, on-demand or automatic). Maybe `which-key' lets you do them now also; dunno (it didn't used to, at least). [Icicles invented key completion, years before `which-key'. `keysee.el' is a reduced version of Icicles key completion. Same thing, but without progressive completion and other completion enhancements.] > It specifically shows help to this prefix key, I do not have > to move the mouse, I do not have to look for a symbol to > click or a menu entry which might be related. `C-h' after a prefix key does that also. E.g., `C-x C-h'. Not enough Emacs users are familiar with this feature, I expect. (But after seeing the help you then need to hit the prefix key(s) again, to use them. E.g, `C-x 4 C-h', then `C-x 4 f' or whatever. IOW, help is separated from use. Pros & cons...) Stefan's suggestion is good: "instead of just displaying "C-x-" it could display something like "C-x- [Hit C-h for help]". A guess is that we might have done that long ago, but `C-h' after some prefix keys didn't work. > I do not have to know how to bury or kill it, it does not > litter my buffer list with jet another buried buffer, it > does not permanently change my window configuration. Seriously? `C-x 1' and `C-x 0' are among the first things every Emacs user learns, no? And if the help is provided in a standard buffer, such as `*Help*' or `*Completions*', then Emacs already pretty much caters to user expectations of removing the window easily. > I think these are great features especially for newbies. Agreed. https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsNewbieWithIcicles#PossibleKeyBindings > > Again, I don't think there is anything in Emacs by > > default that relies on non-input the way which-key > > does. One reason I dislike this is because I've > > seen how some people use `which-key-mode' in person, > > just waiting for the menu to (fragile) pop up, to > > skim through the columns to find what they are > > looking for. By comparison, I think that C-h and > > isearch/occur/etc. is more idiomatic. I agree. It's important to have the choice of using key completion - or getting help on what keys are currently available - on demand, and not just after a delay. > But much more involved to use and they leave traces as > which-key does not. Traces? Is this again about removing a help window such as `*Help*' or `*Completions*'? As others have said, this kind of thing is a user preference. IOW, it's good to be able to get either kind of UI behavior. (I think you agree about this.)