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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: "Philip K." <philipk@posteo.net>,
	"Daniel Fleischer" <danflscr@gmail.com>,
	"Richard Stallman" <rms@gnu.org>,
	"Stefan Kangas" <stefan@marxist.se>,
	"Elias Mårtenson" <lokedhs@gmail.com>,
	emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
	"Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@yandex.ru>, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:20:27 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488028FC7816C6A7C842F38F3D09@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwv7dfxmgbj.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>

> > Con: It's not the same thing.  The `kill-ring'
> >      is not what non-emacsers are used to.
> 
> [ This is all very hypothetical, so it clearly doesn't matter, but IMO
>   the difference is small enough not to matter when it comes to
>   choosing this key binding, IMO.  ]

It's a matter of opinion, yes.

It's a bit like undo.  Emacs's undo is similar
at first sight to what people are used to, but
"it's not the same thing".  Possibly confusing,
misleading.  But no, not the end of the world.

> > This is similar to the pros & cons for words
> > in different languages that look the same or
> > similar, and may (or may not) have similar
> > meanings and uses, but can nevertheless be
> > quite different in some respects.
> >
> > In French they're called "faux amis" - fake
> > friends.
> 
> Nope.  "Faux amis" are words whose core meanings
> are just plain different, 

Yes and no.  How dissimilar the meanings are
("core" or not) points to _how_ false the friend
is.  The point is that there's a difference, at
least in some contexts, and that difference is
hidden from the person fooled - a gotcha.

It's the similarity together with the difference,
and not being aware of the difference, that makes
for a faux ami.  It's about that ignorance and
the resultant "gotcha!"  It's not about how close
the core meanings are.  But yes, the stronger the
difference in meaning, the more the friends are
false.

And there are all sorts - some of which are very
false, and some of which are quite similar but
differ in usage or connotation in at least some
contexts, perhaps contexts that can be important.

That context relevance happens especially for
more recent loan words than for words taken up
by English from French in the 12th century.
It's common, for instance, for the borrowing
language to give the borrowed word a meaning
with a narrower scope, when it already has
words for the wider-scope meaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend

"As well as producing _completely false_ friends,
the use of loanwords often results in the use of
a word in a restricted context, which may then
develop new meanings not found in the original
language."
 
> `C-x` for "Cut" has been standard for a lot more than a decade.

Yes, and?  `C-w' has been standard in Emacs for
longer than "Cut" has existed.

Anyway, I won't argue about `C-x' (or `C-w').
I don't see Emacs moving `C-x', but hey, I've
been wrong before...



  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-09-04  2:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-03 18:00 [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration Drew Adams
2021-09-03 20:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-03 22:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04  2:00   ` Tim Cross
2021-09-04 13:26     ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 13:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-04 14:25         ` Keybinding styles Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 15:44       ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Yuan Fu
2021-09-04 15:50         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-04 15:55           ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 16:07           ` Yuan Fu
2021-09-04 16:19             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-06  3:07             ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-06 11:28               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-04 19:55           ` Keybinding styles Daniel Fleischer
2021-09-04 20:52             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05  7:17               ` tomas
2021-09-04 16:09         ` Bird
2021-09-04 20:48         ` Keybinding styles (was: [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration) Tim Cross
2021-09-05 19:03       ` John Yates
2021-09-06  4:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-07  3:16         ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-07 12:02           ` John Yates
2021-09-08  3:29             ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-08 12:15               ` Keybinding styles André A. Gomes
2021-09-08 13:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-08 20:37                 ` John Yates
2021-09-09  5:39                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-15 13:40                     ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-15 14:26                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-15 15:36                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-15 20:15                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-15 21:29                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-09-16  5:20                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-16  5:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-09  3:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-04 16:05     ` [External] : Re: Gitlab Migration Stefan Kangas
2021-09-04  2:20   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2021-09-04 13:14     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 14:58       ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 16:10         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-04 16:40           ` Drew Adams
2021-09-05 19:27   ` John Yates
2021-09-07  3:16     ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-07 15:31       ` Barry Fishman
2021-09-09  3:07         ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-09 14:07           ` André A. Gomes
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-26 16:20 Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-26 17:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-26 17:59   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-08-26 19:31     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-26 19:41       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-26 20:12         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-26 20:51           ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-26 21:41             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-26 21:52               ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-30 16:30                 ` João Távora
2021-08-30 16:51                   ` Drew Adams
2021-08-30 17:59                     ` João Távora
2021-08-30 19:18                   ` André A. Gomes
2021-08-27  6:21               ` tomas
2021-08-27  6:29               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-27  7:25                 ` Drew Adams
2021-08-27  1:01       ` Tim Cross
2021-08-27  7:07         ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-27  7:34           ` Tim Cross
2021-08-27  8:25             ` tomas
2021-08-27  9:47               ` Tim Cross
2021-08-27 16:59                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-27 16:59               ` Drew Adams
2021-08-27 17:08                 ` tomas
2021-08-29  3:01                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-28  1:39             ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-28  3:21               ` Tim Cross
2021-08-28  5:02                 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-28  7:53                   ` Tim Cross
2021-08-28 16:11                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-29  0:54                       ` Tim Cross
2021-08-29  3:18                         ` Drew Adams
2021-08-30  2:59                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-27  7:00   ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-27 11:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-27 14:33       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-27 21:09         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-28  6:00           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-29  2:27             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-30  2:58               ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-30 12:20                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-30 12:48                   ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-30 12:55                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-03  4:57                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2021-09-03  5:26                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-09-03  7:26                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-03 10:26                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-03 11:11                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-03 11:31                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-03 11:41                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-04  8:02                                     ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-09-04 16:32                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-04 18:39                                         ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-09-04 19:14                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 19:51                                             ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-09-04 20:18                                               ` Tim Cross
2021-09-04 20:41                                                 ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-31  3:09                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-31 11:43                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-31 16:03                       ` João Távora
2021-08-31 18:53                         ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-04 23:45                           ` Yuchen Pei
2021-09-05  1:26                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams

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