From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Masterson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:53:09 -0700 Message-ID: References: <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1y2irhn.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wndmaaow.fsf@localhost> <87tu8qa8cz.fsf@localhost> <87fskawjvw.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Po Lu , Richard Stallman , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 12 08:35:32 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0HC7-000ALP-Ti for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291073 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > David Masterson writes: > >> Ihor Radchenko writes: >> >>> David Masterson writes: >>> >>>>> This last point also raises a question. Can Elisp interpreter and >>>>> libraries be factored out of Emacs to create a way to execute Elisp >>>>> programs without installing all the interactive parts of Emacs? >>>> >>>> Isn't Tim Cross(?) working on something like that -- ie. a parser for >>>> the Org language. Once we have a solid parser, we can build a standard >>>> (set of?) backend(s) for much of Orgmode. >>> >>> Org already have a parser. Written in Elisp. Export is built on top of >>> the parser. >> >> But Elisp is not portable to a non-Emacs system (say, iPhone). In the >> long run, it would be better to define a "parseable" language as the >> standard basis for Org. From that, people can develop (parts of) Org on >> other platforms (Vim, Beorg, Orgzly) and test/prove that they are >> compatible with version X of the language. I think Organice was doing >> this, but I haven't looked at it deeply. >> > > This is all part of the aims and process. However, the first step is to > develop a robust elisp based parser. This helps to ensure the org syntax > is consistent and helps identifies ambiguities which need to be fixed as > well as provides a reference implementation which developers can use to > develop parsers in other languages. Semantic/Bovine ?? Agree >> Oh, but I see your point about "export". By backend, I was assuming a >> true parser would generate a standard "internal" language which could be >> fed into simpler backends to actually do the work. The front-end parser >> and back-ends could be translated/rebuilt as needed on new platorms >> (iOS, Android, MS-Windows, etc.). More is needed than this, but that's >> the idea. > > Personally, I think it is unlikely we will ever see an org mode for > other platforms which is equivalent to Emacs. However, the work which is > being done to create a clean parser in elisp and use that as the basis > for an API to manipulate org data, generate font-locking and formatting > and provide a clean API for exporters to use will make it much easier > for people to develop external org support at varying levels. Agree > Those doing the main work, like Ihor, are very aware of the desire to > facilitate external implementations. It is one reason that a fairly > conservative attitude to change is adopted by the project and often, one > consideration is what imapct a change would have on external org > compatible projects. Sometimes, this is challenging as on one level, we > want ot advance and improve org mode, but on the other, we want it to be > as stable as possible to reduce adverse impact on external projects. So > while the main target is and will always be Emacs, an eye is kept on > efforts of other external projects and an effort is made to support them > when possible and within Emacs and FSF principals/guidelines. > > So far, the key contributors have been doing a very good job. That's good. -- David Masterson