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From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Konstantin Kharlamov <hi-angel@yandex.ru>,
	 arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org,  luangruo@yahoo.com,
	 philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 11:07:07 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB54551A9AF9E04B8E6535C9C7A25FA@SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83h6r48a02.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 19 Jun 2023 05:24:29 +0300")

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Konstantin Kharlamov <hi-angel@yandex.ru>
>> 
>> On Sun, 2023-06-18 at 22:11 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> > > From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
>> > > 
>> > > > > In the discussion it became clear (at least to me) that the way to
>> > > > > contribute is not the main complication, but the discoverability of that
>> > > > > way and that the way seems hard when you see more than a sheet of paper
>> > > > > in print as instructions.
>> > > > 
>> > > > You are inventing a problem where there is none.
>> > > 
>> > > You said that the w32 port didn’t get many additional devs. I’m trying
>> > > to find reasons — and on the website I see obvious reasons that keep
>> > > people from contributing. And the more I look into it, the more I see
>> > > how broken the new-dev-wants-to-contribute usecase of the website is.
>> > 
>> > I understand and appreciate what you are trying to do, but those
>> > aren't the reasons for lack of active contributors to Emacs.
>> 
>> I think it cumulative of many factors, and fixing every small factor that comes
>> into play increases probability of getting a new contributor.
>
> The suggested measures will not fix any such factors.

Would you say that Emacs still has development practices from the
80s/90s that, given the chance and newer toolsets, you could see being
done differently and better?

It's okay to say that what Emacs has now is working well for the current
developers, but is difficult for on-boarding new developers that want to
start out simple before graduating into Emacs internals.

-- 
David Masterson



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-06-19 18:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 364+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-06-16 11:20 Android port of Emacs Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-16 13:03 ` Po Lu
2023-06-16 13:17   ` Po Lu
2023-06-16 15:16 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-16 15:32   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-16 16:34     ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-16 19:34       ` Bob Rogers
2023-06-16 23:46       ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  2:10       ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-17  0:49     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17  6:20       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  9:28         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-17 13:34         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17 16:47           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17 18:11             ` contributing to Emacs Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17 18:36               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17 19:39                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17 21:00                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17 21:10                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17 21:19                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17 21:26                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-17 22:25                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17 22:39                             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  5:20                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  8:53                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  9:01                                   ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  9:23                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  9:25                                       ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 10:04                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:07                                           ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  9:57                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-18  9:01                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  9:06                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  9:21                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:00                                         ` Michael Albinus
2023-06-18 13:29                                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-06-18 22:46                                           ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-19  2:30                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  9:18                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  9:35                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 21:16                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-18 10:00                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-06-18 10:15                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:22                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-06-23  6:49                                         ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-24 15:37                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-06-25  7:40                                             ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-25 11:32                                               ` Setting 'vc-default-patch-addressee' in .dir-locals.el Philip Kaludercic
2023-06-18 12:13                                       ` contributing to Emacs Po Lu
2023-06-18 12:26                                         ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 13:43                                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-18 14:57                                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 16:29                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 18:52                                                 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 19:10                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-18 19:11                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 20:10                                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-19  2:24                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-19  6:05                                                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-19 18:07                                                         ` David Masterson [this message]
2023-06-19 18:50                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-19 21:29                                                             ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-19 22:49                                                               ` David Masterson
2023-06-20 11:14                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-20 15:45                                                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-20 16:14                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-20 16:32                                                                     ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-06-20 16:42                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-20 19:49                                                                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-24  1:44                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2023-06-24  3:10                                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-06-24  7:00                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24  7:54                                                                         ` Michael Albinus
2023-06-25  2:25                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-25 16:41                                                                         ` Corwin Brust
2023-06-25 23:31                                                                           ` Björn Bidar
2023-06-26 16:47                                                                             ` Ian Kelling
2023-06-27 11:08                                                                             ` Yuchen Pei
2023-06-27 13:52                                                                               ` Corwin Brust
2023-06-28  4:33                                                                               ` Björn Bidar
2023-06-29  3:03                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-07-03  2:32                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2023-07-03  4:25                                                                                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-07-05  2:07                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-07-04  1:58                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-07-05 13:19                                                                                 ` Yuchen Pei
2023-07-09  2:53                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-27  1:05                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-28  2:18                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-20 16:24                                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-20 16:33                                                                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-19 22:47                                                             ` David Masterson
2023-06-20  1:17                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-06-20  2:24                                                                 ` David Masterson
2023-06-20  7:01                                                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-21  0:51                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-21  4:13                                                                   ` Po Lu
2023-06-21  4:23                                                                   ` David Masterson
2023-06-23  1:47                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-23  2:28                                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-06-25  2:25                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-20 11:20                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  8:34                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-18  8:58                                 ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  0:50                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-20  2:55                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-20  3:39                                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-21  9:20                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-22  1:56                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-22  2:23                                     ` Po Lu
2023-06-22  7:47                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-06-22  7:59                                         ` Po Lu
2023-06-22  8:38                                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-20 11:30                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17 21:44                         ` chad
2023-06-18  9:26                     ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 10:05                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:30                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 10:52                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 11:00                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 10:57                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  8:59                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18  9:30                     ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  9:34                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18  9:56                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:02                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:13                           ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:22                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:27                               ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:36                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:44                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:59                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 11:14                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 11:32                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 11:54                                           ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:18                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 12:24                                               ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 15:20                                                 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 10:54                                 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 11:11                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:10                                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 12:28                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:51                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 13:02                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 13:13                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 13:32                                     ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 13:50                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 10:12                         ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 10:22                           ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:09                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 12:30                               ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 13:29                                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 13:55                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 12:33                               ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-18 13:30                                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 13:57                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-23  6:51                           ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-23  7:06                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-23  7:14                               ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-23  7:17                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24  7:21                               ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-24  7:43                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24 12:36                                   ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-24 14:44                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24 16:17                                       ` Konstantin Kharlamov
2023-06-24 17:13                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-25  7:39                                   ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-18  9:43                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:19                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 10:31                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 10:50                           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 11:29                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-16 15:49 ` Android port of Emacs Thomas Fitzsimmons
2023-06-16 16:28   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-16 23:45   ` Po Lu
2023-06-16 21:19 ` chad
2023-06-17  0:11   ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  6:18     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  6:38       ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  6:47         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  7:08           ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  7:27             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  7:41               ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  8:47                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  9:36             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-17  9:57               ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  7:33           ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-30 22:09       ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-06-17  6:00   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  6:57     ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  7:10       ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  7:21       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17  7:33         ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  7:54           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-17  8:02             ` Po Lu
2023-06-17  8:43           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-17 16:47             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-06-18  0:36               ` Po Lu
2023-06-19  2:13               ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-19  7:51             ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-06-19  8:22               ` Po Lu
2023-06-19 16:42                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-19 17:54               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  1:10     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-18  1:24       ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  2:07         ` Óscar Fuentes
2023-06-20 13:29           ` Po Lu
2023-06-22 22:49             ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-23  0:22               ` Po Lu
2023-06-23  7:37                 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-23  8:52                   ` Po Lu
2023-06-26 15:18                     ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-27  0:39                       ` Po Lu
2023-07-01 14:13                         ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-24 12:17             ` Óscar Fuentes
2023-06-24 13:01               ` Po Lu
2023-06-24 13:57                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2023-06-25  0:07                   ` Po Lu
2023-06-25  2:02                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2023-06-25  4:04                       ` Po Lu
2023-07-01 19:02                         ` Spencer Baugh
2023-07-02  5:09                           ` Po Lu
2023-07-02 12:50                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-02 12:59                               ` Po Lu
2023-07-02 13:15                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-07-13 13:54                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2023-07-13 23:56                                     ` Po Lu
2023-07-02 13:16                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-02 15:45                                   ` Spencer Baugh
2023-07-02 16:29                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-02 17:28                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-02 18:48                                       ` Spencer Baugh
2023-07-02 23:53                                     ` Po Lu
2023-07-02 23:51                                   ` Po Lu
2023-07-04 12:34                               ` Jean Louis
2023-07-04 15:46                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-05  0:18                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-07-11 20:53                                   ` Bryce
2023-07-02  9:31                         ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-07-02 11:29                           ` Po Lu
2023-07-02 14:52                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-07-02 15:26                             ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-07-03  0:03                               ` Po Lu
2023-07-04 18:59                                 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-06-25  4:45                       ` Takesi Ayanokoji
2023-06-25  5:56                         ` Po Lu
2023-06-25 10:07                           ` Takesi Ayanokoji
2023-06-25 10:21                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-25 11:35                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-26  6:11                               ` Takesi Ayanokoji
2023-06-18  2:46         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-18  3:05           ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 22:35             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-19  0:39               ` Po Lu
2023-06-19 12:04                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-18  5:31       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18  5:48         ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  7:33           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-18 22:26         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-21  0:50       ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-21 11:32         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-23  1:47           ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-23  7:04             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-23  9:05               ` Po Lu
2023-06-23 10:23                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-23 11:38                   ` Po Lu
2023-06-23 12:08                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24  1:19                       ` Po Lu
2023-06-24  6:54                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24 15:19                           ` Robert Pluim
2023-06-24 18:56                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-06-25  0:12                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-29 20:34                           ` Filipp Gunbin
2023-06-30  0:35                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-30  3:21                             ` Takesi Ayanokoji
2023-06-30  4:54                             ` Jean Louis
2023-06-24  1:39                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-24  7:06                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-24 22:23                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-25  0:10                             ` Po Lu
2023-06-25  2:26                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-06-25  4:15                                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-25  5:10                             ` Jean Louis
2023-06-25  5:57                               ` Po Lu
2023-06-30  4:57                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-06-30  5:12                                   ` Po Lu
2023-07-04 12:27                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-06-26  2:12                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-23 12:33               ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-24  7:30               ` Sean Whitton
2023-06-25  2:25               ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-25  2:40                 ` Po Lu
2023-06-27  1:07                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-25  5:38                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-27  1:07                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-17 23:16 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-18  0:42   ` Po Lu
2023-06-18  6:20     ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-18  6:56       ` Po Lu
2023-06-18 22:53         ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-19  0:34           ` Po Lu
2023-06-19 14:27             ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-21  0:52               ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-21  9:20                 ` Gregory Heytings
     [not found]                   ` <87r0q53vi7.fsf@dick>
2023-06-23  1:47                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-19 16:19             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-20  1:13               ` Po Lu
2023-06-20  5:57                 ` chad
2023-06-20 11:25                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-21  9:19                 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-18  0:57   ` Po Lu
2023-06-30 21:53   ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-07-01 14:13     ` Gregory Heytings
2023-07-01 14:35       ` Stefan Monnier
2023-07-01 15:09         ` Gregory Heytings
2023-07-02 15:43           ` Stefan Monnier
2023-07-13 13:55             ` Gregory Heytings
2023-07-13 16:53               ` Stefan Monnier
2023-07-13 23:55                 ` Po Lu
2023-07-17  1:50                 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 11:28                 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-10 12:50                   ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 13:26                   ` Eric S Fraga
2023-08-10 13:45                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 13:33                   ` Stefan Monnier
2023-07-02  9:00       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-06-18 20:39 ` Thanos Apollo
2023-06-19 16:08   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-06-30 21:44   ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-06-25 23:37 ` Björn Bidar
2023-06-30 21:40 ` Stefan Monnier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-09-07 20:01 Contributing to Emacs João Paulo Labegalini de Carvalho
2022-09-07 20:32 ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-09-08 16:26   ` João Paulo Labegalini de Carvalho
2022-09-08 16:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07 21:33 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08  5:40   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-08 10:22     ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 11:57     ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 12:27       ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-08 13:11         ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 13:25           ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-08 13:38             ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-09-08 14:13               ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-08 14:48                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2022-09-08 15:21             ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 12:12     ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 13:47       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-08 14:49         ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 14:55           ` Visuwesh
2022-09-08 15:16             ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 15:24               ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-08 15:34                 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 15:37                   ` Visuwesh
2022-09-08 15:39                   ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-08 16:43                     ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 16:11               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-08 16:38                 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-09-08 16:08           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-03-20  5:44 Jacob Criner
2013-03-21  7:49 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-03-26 16:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-03-26 17:33   ` Drew Adams

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