From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18463"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Stefan Kangas , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 21 19:18:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDtJM-0004iA-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 19:18:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57128 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDtJL-0005LD-B0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:18:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDtIR-0004MZ-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:17:37 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:50498) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lDtIM-0002iT-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:17:30 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11LIEuDw162252; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:24 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=T1G7Dm1rAPGle0MJmTkHb9/ghtzamCOtTkRAaIe/BWA=; b=ZcvG4b1uqzL5E4FCoVcWF2mbG5L0atKAL33/XsDn+x1Q/OZUsezIu0wMob7jWHyynr03 ULnkQajCSfiiPJXUS2vPfVoCJ2yGvoOp8jxU4MverMMKw8a41kYNe4jPtvQXyHdrt7Tl Ly/4Pc/Lx2TiZ5aT5Jdu42yJMREaI5asuI9dof48OoiYeDmdcwuoCR09V5UInbiGCx3p FzMcOydEU3ZIckRDZG91R3ipGNqrHTAJ8OLxAQiyr2JPT1RO/jN9qW2+LK1FVtoy4yQ+ P5DG/kOU+BcJKwyv3V7D0I27k2RXp1YwAbEDojt+eEvc+Cl1MKwX6Rp76q0JNzbFgtRv tg== Original-Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36tqxb9wyy-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:24 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11LIEiv0063253; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:24 GMT Original-Received: from nam11-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam11lp2172.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.172]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36uc0kgx62-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:24 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=myrC0mI1hwHhWkWIwXpppQuiFJ4JW7SQteIeGWJ1VgxZ58iop0AlOrxsjGA20RH2jzRr+1Rp6fj0Fq/+QoE7L7IzCT6Xy1YJ7ecn4n8XlpVbAjRbtpzZiGfHwfXyT7Ve2kK/yAljrBjIL214Doy/VQKdFRitx4mmn7NkhfvgPkaZx00/tl/h62VzcCezSmVV679DPXgy+db60O9DAG1def4wzPVnvMf5Xx4gjng219k6PxqID4sKoDwEm8k7Gr8NBmlXxx0fh/V0qXXf6WX6VIMuYX/A5oUode4ZXHrjd+HIasnnqkN4oOjHkvZvCHA7vp9sLvrwB6/w0TARrc8SyA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=T1G7Dm1rAPGle0MJmTkHb9/ghtzamCOtTkRAaIe/BWA=; b=TIIbviFyQx7RWW7mJigolX6cU4hxKekinYDql9JF4F95C23KtH4bTzGYRYSHyDCsUYKg1Xcnhk6jFT+kUsVZ0jW4MEzUV7jfkx/RY1h2OgRLuRXQnx/RFlZGm7qwc8B8UuBObvrPF2z/Mf0coe86RzLV9loIDzxbDHgIeQSLBQkzE6X1/tmOe6EkuJ6BsOvOiV6q4FGvWOi9cjSAoJiOGSM04zNHj6Q1/CWmMvuKi0x6VIm2SG06Uaz5gnkGMAmcWxsayHcV1CbWltU5816i3L2zo6vbBy0zRDVaslnBRk2YDA/cBO/o1Ftix3PQTBXLtRRFoKWQ/izyUkUyqRet5A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=T1G7Dm1rAPGle0MJmTkHb9/ghtzamCOtTkRAaIe/BWA=; b=VYevRVhsRVzZFE6lcO6NfXfR+bL2YakafzUtcTf/MlfpRatUVqs5k5/f3mDyH286nw2LwEv14n+w0PpzVJ4B6t2LVJlZnh2B+Y8j5SdQp2T1D9COE2khW17L8Nr9KwsazNahid4AsCtvv7Yy6DqnDSs7qmyVn83Wo3tZy2fUwKc= Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:11b::15) by SA2PR10MB4761.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:112::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3868.31; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:21 +0000 Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3868.032; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:17:21 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Thread-Index: AQHXCHdeqRk4yvhdR0aZnMy8WnRCz6pi6AKQ In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: marxist.se; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;marxist.se; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5687e4c8-ea79-46a4-3930-08d8d694ee89 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA2PR10MB4761: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: uYxXCP14fNj/dqBWP/QQbmRHgPC6yp47R9yCAN7ZM8sMt6hmzG1lHJHZFc0MtLRpCVYmT/fAUkEND7v+IJVjCZRMMGX+/cki3l2GQuwTOXbLKNn/q0SirwkkAGonZtV6Rz28cUHP7wtgbkeGV8AOxx7djWJKoyE3xbk9W7eKJjMgjbW0/U21lI0+dT7I8LByhjzESL3meHs/PUQ0qqHG3oRqJJ8ICBYoaa+4CPS9JaxtjyM7L5mD+7zRS5XNQrsP+E5nK46FgnlWb1uJk+4o5/mPlMRUH2OzNHR25+DKx04Lm4RR13jxbwQu5UcNCLeM2nfVW7Fl93p4y8hTfyQjiYmKefeF036AhEJ4ZC7r7tZ5QJhp6UEJx4Alj54kWIhg1qq6XttM1B6dAQY/T43WEM5C6Z7Pd6Hj9is+UjmA91ZtjEDYiHE8p8Yfajrspr0fy6spKxEFMeAmc0CQcCZrehdfmHAST/khAeQtRsheuaUulSQFP8vUSTjrAqmo76HfALkU8gvHVqZSb5penAZp+neVtSnINXzeicBaY81r5XibdRdJ5YPIsMdAY7emBMD6 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(366004)(9686003)(64756008)(8936002)(316002)(86362001)(8676002)(71200400001)(110136005)(66556008)(2906002)(5660300002)(33656002)(66476007)(66946007)(478600001)(44832011)(186003)(26005)(55016002)(66446008)(52536014)(6506007)(76116006)(7696005)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?utf-8?B?R0U0NkxuT1NUUzJqMlZES2ZCL0lvUm9qd2ZNL0dDa01xOWhVemxGSndyNlVs?= =?utf-8?B?Wng3MTVpUVpzdHcveE1yeCtIcjBFcjlKVGlNc3cwZjlSOGY0WlNnRS9ZWURr?= =?utf-8?B?UThlKzd1aDE4Q0UxK3VTQWlsbDVkazZVZDd5dkpuNTc0RllKS0xlNjVTTlpZ?= =?utf-8?B?aTJDNVFOOUlEMmY3UTFSQmFZRk02NXkzUGlMbjc0TVkxQUdwU3FTQVQ2amVu?= =?utf-8?B?OTZKWnFVVXd1c1prY01tRmFielllQy9ZUlBNY2ZQRXpFOUtONlgrUWxwVzBi?= =?utf-8?B?Vk52eENiRk1rdnBteWJ5ZjR1cTNLdWlOc0x2UEJvdVovRktIcFlJVzFUVUx2?= =?utf-8?B?WHI1M2lQbUpSU0E0NzJkTTVueVlVaHRFbnNTWStOTE84NTFTUC82MHJPMlY1?= =?utf-8?B?SU8zTDk2SmttSFptazh3Q2p3QWtndFJncnBXYXZsbXRDTllVNEp4WC9Lajdv?= =?utf-8?B?V3A3VE94aHJFWm5jK1YvbjhaTFJXRU1TemtndXBudXprNmZsc2NabU1oZXlj?= =?utf-8?B?Wmg5WHltZVVIeTVXdWkzL0ZDNnFyWk5STTJpSnROVXpPUlR4eDQrOU15bThU?= =?utf-8?B?a0dPTUd6QXFxYnpVZWJYMDNkb0MrdjlKQk0wUGxSME9uS0dyMzlCazhkd0No?= =?utf-8?B?NzNzMVJEdlVEZ3NJWkFrR0hxd2dDTUs4WExzYkRv x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5687e4c8-ea79-46a4-3930-08d8d694ee89 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Feb 2021 18:17:21.7841 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VwT+NG1/blYP2TdNcvARG5Kc3iK2SU1gpdKqfGAMwHaJVbVyfgqRneZGIWHuPPeOF4PU0BydQzAnDujZf3oiyg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4761 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9902 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102210186 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9902 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102210186 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.79; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265419 Archived-At: PiA+IEZXSVcsIEkndmUgbmV2ZXIgYmVlbiBhIGJpZyBmYW4gb2YgdGhlIGhlbHAtZm9yLWhlbHAg VUkuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBBdCBhIG1pbmltdW0sIGtleXMgYW5kIGNvbW1hbmRzIG1lbnRpb25lZCBz aG91bGQNCj4gPiBoYXZlIGxpbmtzIHRvIHRoZWlyIGZ1bGwgZG9jIChvciBvdGhlciBpbmZvKS4N Cj4gDQo+IEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIHRoZSBuZWVkIGZvciBzdWNoIGxpbmtzIGluIGBoZWxwLWZvci1o ZWxwJyBpbiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLA0KPiBidXQgSSdtIG9wZW4gdG8gYmVpbmcgY29udmluY2VkLiAg SXQgbWlnaHQgbWFrZSBzZW5zZSBpZiB3ZSBjYW4gZmluZCBhDQo+IGdvb2QgVUkgdGhhdCBpcyBl YXN5IHRvIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgYW5kIGRvZXMgbm90IG92ZXJ3aGVsbS4NCj4gDQo+IFdoYXQgZG8g eW91IGltYWdpbmUgdGhpcyB3b3VsZCBsb29rIGxpa2U/ICBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgd2hpY2gga2V5 cw0KPiB3b3VsZCBhIHVzZXIgcHJlc3MgYWZ0ZXIgYEMtaCBDLWgnIHRvIGZvbGxvdyB0aGVzZSBh ZGRlZCBsaW5rcz8NCj4gDQo+IChUaGlzIG1pZ2h0IGFsc28gYmUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgc2NvcGUg b2YgdGhlIHJlZm9ybWF0dGluZyBJIGF0dGVtcHQNCj4gaGVyZS4pDQoNCkkgcmVhbGx5IGhhdmVu J3QgdGhvdWdodCBhYm91dCBpdC4gIEF0IGFsbC4NCg0KT2ZmIHRoZSB0b3Agb2YgbXkgaGVhZCwg YEMtaCBDLWgnIHdvdWxkbid0DQpwdXQgeW91IGluIGEgc2VtaS1tb2RhbCBkaWFsb2csIHNob3dp bmcgeW91DQpzb21lIGtleXMgeW91IGNhbiBwcmVzcyB0byBnZXQgcGFydGljdWxhcg0KaW5mbyAo b3Iga2V5cyB0byBzY3JvbGwgZm9yIG1vcmUgc3VjaCkuDQoNCkluc3RlYWQsIGl0IGNvdWxkIHNo b3cgeW91LCBhbmQgcGVyaGFwcw0Kc2VsZWN0LCBhICpIZWxwKiBidWZmZXIgdGhhdCBkZXNjcmli ZXMgdGhlDQpoZWxwIHN5c3RlbSAtIGtleXMgd2l0aCB0aGVpciBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbnMsDQphbmQg d2l0aCBsaW5rcy4NCg0KVGhhdCBpcywgYWZ0ZXIgYWxsLCBob3cgeW91IHdpbGwgaW50ZXJhY3QN CndpdGggaGVscCBnZW5lcmFsbHksIG9uY2UgeW91IGdldCBpbnRvIGl0Lg0KSXQncyB3aGF0IGVh Y2ggaGVscCBjb21tYW5kIGRvZXM6IHNob3cgeW91DQpzb21lIGhlbHAgaW5mbyBhbmQgKHVzdWFs bHkpIHByb3ZpZGUgc29tZQ0KbGlua3MgdG8gbW9yZSBpbmZvLg0KDQpUaGUgYEMtaCBDLWgnIGRp YWxvZyBzZWVtcyBhIGJpdCB3ZWlyZCwNCnRvIG1lOyB0aGF0J3MgYWxsLiAgKEkgZG9uJ3QgY2xh aW0gaXQncw0Kd2VpcmQgZm9yIG90aGVycy4pDQpfX18NCg0KQnV0IGFnYWluLCBJJ20gbm90IHBy b3Bvc2luZyBhbnl0aGluZw0KcGFydGljdWxhciBhcyBhIHJlcGxhY2VtZW50IGZvciB0aGUNCmBD LWggQy1oJyBkaWFsb2cuICBNeSBwb2ludCBhYm91dCB0aGF0DQp3YXMganVzdCB0aGF0IEkndmUg bmV2ZXIgYmVlbiBhIGJpZyBmYW4NCm9mIGl0Lg0KDQpUaGF0IGNvbW1lbnQgaXMgcmVhbGx5IHNl cGFyYXRlIGZyb20gbXkNCmZlZWRiYWNrIGFib3V0IHlvdXIgcHJvcG9zYWwsIHdoaWNoIHdhcw0K dG8gY29uc2lkZXIgYWRkaW5nIGxpbmtzLg0K