From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Current mode command discovery Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:10:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v9aubm96.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7qbjn2.fsf@gnu.org> <87eehi820x.fsf@gnus.org> <83v9at9xel.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnv8xlqa.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7o9g90.fsf@gnu.org> <87im6revhq.fsf@tcd.ie> <83im6r98qd.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0r7uade.fsf@gnus.org> <83eehf978r.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft1vu9hd.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7n95pf.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xvu7sx.fsf@gnus.org> <834kib94ha.fsf@gnu.org> <874kibh9mu.fsf@telefonica.net> <83o8gi7lh2.fsf@gnu.org> <871rdebmmh.fsf@telefonica.net> <831rdc4epn.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8ggte2j.fsf@gnus.org> <83lfbj1av3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39449"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "ofv@wanadoo.es" , "rms@gnu.org" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , "larsi@gnus.org" , "yandros@gmail.com" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 21 18:18:15 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDsN4-000A9Z-B5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265409 Archived-At: > > > Speaking of a symbol property... > > > > > > IMHO, all of the shenanigans undertaken recently > > > to provide command enabling/filtering should be > > > replaced by simply using a property on command > > > symbols. (Maybe more than one property, if you > > > really need something complex for some reason.) Eli> Lars still doesn't think it is better (I disagree). > > > I realize that this has already been suggested. > > > The threads are long and rambling, and I may well > > > have missed something, but I don't recall any > > > good reason given for rejecting this approach. > > Eli> Lars gave his reasons, but I don't consider Eli> them to be good enough. >=20 > A succinct relisting of those reasons would be > good, IMO. I, for one, completely missed them. >=20 > There's nothing I'm aware of that's better suited > for this than using a symbol property. Simple; > flexible; usable by any party, anywhere, anytime. > No mess, no fuss. No source code changes (except > to get & test the property). >=20 > What's going on instead -- has been, still is, > incomplete, and will need updating forever -- > seems complicated, error prone, time-consuming, > overengineered, and simply not necessary. > IMHO. (But what do I know?) Is it really too late to turn this bombing mission around & reconsider? Can we, instead of modifying zillions of Emacs source files, with judgments made at code-defining time, just use a symbol property, which anyone and any library can modify as needed? This seems like an ocean liner where a paddle-boat is called for, at most. Une v=E9ritable usine =E0 gaz. The closer you look into trying to implement the current approach, the more complications you're finding. But the main problem is that decisions about what modes a command gets associated with are being made centrally, and in source code no less. How is that the right approach? All that's needed, IMO, is the same thing we do with `delete-selection-mode' or `thing-at-point': associate whatever we want/need with a command by attaching a property to its symbol. Why are we making this so utterly complicated? I haven't seen a good reason yet. That whole "WHY this way?" part seems to have been elided or glossed over for this gigantic enterprise. Can't we please reconsider this endeavor - the how, at least?