From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: command mode-specificity [was: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change...] Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87tuqbft57.fsf@telefonica.net> <87im6rndo0.fsf@gnus.org> <87v9aqn5eq.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1len1j9.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21955"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 17 19:44:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRnu-0005c8-Nd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:44:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39606 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRnt-0000DT-Mm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:44:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37416) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRly-0006Yz-BV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:42:02 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:40110) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lCRlu-0003tN-2M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:42:01 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11HIULdR045563; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:55 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=D+QFbdeq2w9H9xLQiuDWaycTPGktn7IBFxiaqWHuIhk=; b=Q3ppJDYv6BX81xhFM9kS/7H36nRh8zRJx6Ky/Ecan2s1e7Vkl/bW7Yw8f1ushCwqyZl9 gPt/SHGPmuTM1asb//nWMNQosbYJFb6sdkB2MbH8iutFtPSQjkFoFTDa+1gSubcimcJU 1Pc5aYbFQcDOqbgdAoAzH9WK6fjNc2wDzXKBcbj1FuuJfMNKo9jd6HYjsJuSv+bQbk0N 3jvqMofGyaJNKjCzDnvc1Qokepnxe8a2ZUibpJrpsEInDneeyejDj6t5tfMxIMw3HOil MkdIiI3ROZwI3FhisOfMZQemrUMs/PZNgRyKD/izxWVFjUCU4bW8giR04WFkP5XrxPGO /Q== Original-Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36p49bbmcg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:55 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 11HIUEfW067332; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:55 GMT Original-Received: from nam12-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12lp2174.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.174]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36prp0jpj6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:54 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=TST8TYBaULNmu7uI0O9dne7yY8waD0Y7C1z0XIsTEMozPxBmZpEBv2jSILBFuFk/8OzlRNngDH6owpAe72IQEFZpeqjUnyYaycSiLQlcZA0HO66rr0sAPvSx3+t3Hhr3lOuH01ftCxgoxXTIRUDaViG0rwC1mFO4GRcO0UsPZPLHKALfHaihk1jxoTcOJgQToTAaNpVbRHBJ5iRbmpqyiplEeOY0L/7w7PTYewZ8XrRDqPT7zOEwBIrV/fJ3gz5d3aVOuIG852uINx2QVlg6mxgAgx1DS/hSczOXq2FpYUCygMsY9WAnFUVj+DnaYlWX+8S/PPbKNKG79tW/EKwtDQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=D+QFbdeq2w9H9xLQiuDWaycTPGktn7IBFxiaqWHuIhk=; b=dAhD6fHq5Jl3Kslc+PmQVcnkSc4nqiB6y5ygHopdR5YRsXR/rlVJrxV4RcdDUR2MPwuPueolJN+dHH9ecLez/YV/L5Uq1Dua9XvZNktvvQAXitJ+XU6NDqHwIkG4hqXBrGPD884gWTKUcs8JVhxpauW3UQXJE3/URPti0Y+8SlxF+GcY5mb8ubSYFPnKB+B6HzybKyjs+SLxXg4nLKQhjTOgmPOFIPpJMmb/UKYYM0oqi+i44OFOl2G2wjyz5wB1vbexNeLFkez53JzxU8Gz7htgG3B6rWDLoOSkoV6tBP3XjZRNhmT4BKH5JoFtp3zvciRfhd2Aa/ENL3yxHdKnIQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=D+QFbdeq2w9H9xLQiuDWaycTPGktn7IBFxiaqWHuIhk=; b=NagdJbrIXQYqevk8NLYP8+s6VM9NYSaB//f0EB53SYKXgtAOEPfJPZTIFD/ANo+6D3kybGjITQ8d6Gc5PUnqlJNFHcaBEcRT6vQtd/pNlv+HQOIhTyrQ8D3EakxJiqjUrXM3+JOu16BoM4vaYAZ1lAT3BebFCPs2CC7aDNm3ueI= Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:11b::15) by SN6PR10MB2432.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:805:46::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3846.26; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:50 +0000 Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b8d2:db6d:3e4b:d315%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3846.043; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 18:41:50 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: command mode-specificity [was: scratch/command 064f146 1/2: Change...] Thread-Index: AQHXBUOgmp/8VPmAaEyYjGihXHUc7qpcrCIw In-Reply-To: <87r1len1j9.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 94031eb9-527a-4a4f-e20c-08d8d373b079 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2432: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(136003)(376002)(366004)(186003)(83380400001)(66556008)(54906003)(8676002)(2906002)(76116006)(7696005)(71200400001)(478600001)(316002)(66446008)(110136005)(26005)(5660300002)(66476007)(8936002)(66946007)(44832011)(64756008)(52536014)(9686003)(55016002)(4326008)(6506007)(86362001)(33656002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?iso-8859-1?Q?o2dHjz5Cl80DOMdDZExAUeJQKih2ue2DlfinCLtYN8IozJTBuozWWTx0SH?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?al/OYBwfXLEjCmJIIv1c38+L4GB87L8RUFOO7K95QSmtrYvi3hxCkZyxA6?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?R3jHdEyrTk0B+zuQyGHeB0j6RqMdCJGFUPjdjDxkdz4YPHw7jxRfcrWqhd?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?oid7jZHKKhBhAQfBBGzG0J97iRVs7llCGc1+uFmbeW/EFmpuPnrmeVFp1V?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?l2CHA6M2p3JGQsUNLhsMOZ1zgQw2VQyr36glMabaCtcjpys022sxQeakaH?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?WvPpTl282dIv73VgzlQbum3JD9zjYxaK7kKJWVva3Fmrf42/Bujt5ZxgNp?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?6ZutJXYzw1yYKkHIfTCV/hQC2wRZXo55sjbITiE7HijnMa8Fm1gUuhT/j9?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?1q+tF4f7r5jDiaU7hFT4KpEFLeWKB7PexcLg4HA80uJTi3dZyfBzAnxDzo?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z8dwnS3IoyCRELQB9kcerwfWNPbbfEaT1QEBgwS8Zm918yEaJD+ZlYiYti?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?fDPbkr9cRPSsJZiC8TghVcb3j5AKOFytk5QQTPvsWmcmnqom4talBy0p6T?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?JzhpCjhNmsVhPv3LmSxaBzreXAwVnjJsspfrGl5T+VtQhyBHCLkDijLQdI?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?kp x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 94031eb9-527a-4a4f-e20c-08d8d373b079 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Feb 2021 18:41:50.7795 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 44DoyM313G2mmErPVBsEMNFm36a4p17EXQPCDfise1VdYIliwYw3bXncfnBkJUsosnumDJLqsk8b4f2+khH87Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2432 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9898 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102170134 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9898 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102170134 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.79; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265044 Archived-At: > > I think it would be good to try and clarify what should be the > > criterion, and not in terms of "should be listed in M-x" since that > > inherently depends on opinions, but rather in more technical terms > > that depend on what the command does. > > [ A bit like with docstrings: we like docstrings that say what the > > function does rather than when/where it's meant to be used. ] > > > > Maybe something like "would inevitably signal an error"? >=20 > I don't think there's any hard and fast > criterion that can be used, though. Which is what some of us have been saying... So we're back to the question of what you mean by "commands meant for this specific mode" and "commands bound to modes". No answer, so far. OK, you've said it's a judgment call. That sounds reasonable. But what criteria are you using when weighing? And why not let users do the judging, including at the time of completion? Why decide for them? > it's not immediately obvious what's the right > thing to do until you've evaluated a few > instances. It sounds like the concept of command relevance for a mode is itself not well understood/defined. We're back to one person's filter-it-out is another's keep-it-in, no? Put differently, as already said, things are not cut-and-dried. Whether a command should be a completion candidate depends on the user and the current context. It's not something for some developer to decide at command definition time. No predefined filtering "per mode" makes general sense, at least not as default behavior.