From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Current mode command discovery Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 16:54:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v9aubm96.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1laomak.fsf@gnus.org> <83im6mzpuk.fsf@gnu.org> <83czwuzo1w.fsf@gnu.org> <835z2mzlyo.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtvxxxcg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30088"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "larsi@gnus.org" , "stefankangas@gmail.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Eli Zaretskii , "rms@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 21 17:57:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lDs2i-0007jk-RS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 21 Feb 2021 16:54:24 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: Current mode command discovery Thread-Index: AQHXCGTnAcw3exOIcUaxCYWW4/uIwapizFJA In-Reply-To: <83mtvxxxcg.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: gnu.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnu.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 105bb910-e0ed-49a6-0eca-08d8d6895797 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2640: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265405 Archived-At: > Since the first time I've read the tutorial, the > notion of C-f etc. being a kind of command was > very clear to me. The tutorial has this all over > the place. Here's a typical example, of which > there are many: >=20 > The following commands are useful for viewing screenfuls: > C-v Move forward one screenful > M-v Move backward one screenful > C-l Clear screen and redisplay all the text, Yes, that's all over the tutorial. It's not all over Emacs, however - and rightfully so. A tutorial need not present all distinctions in an exact way. The point there is to give users the idea that when they use the key `C-v' they are, in effect, invoking a command to scroll the text. I personally think that even for the tutorial it would help users to introduce the concept of key binding, and tell them that each key you press is, in general, bound to a command, which is a function that gets invoked when you press the key. I mention that pretty early on, when I present Emacs to newbies. I think it's an important notion to grasp. That, together with the fact that you (anyone) can easily _change_ which command is invoked by a given key, pretty much gets across the basic idea and mechanics of Emacs. Newbies are of course often used to the idea that an app lets them change some "hot key" bindings - set some "keyboard shortcuts". But the fact that in Emacs _every_ key - every action - is configurable with key bindings, is something newbies are typically not used to. It's not _essential_ that this be introduced in the tutorial, but I think it would help. It's key to understanding Emacs that even when you type a key such as `a', and the result might be to insert the letter `a', you are invoking a char-insertion command that is bound to the key. ___ Whether the tutorial or some other help support glosses over the difference between a key and a command it's bound to is something different from whether in fact there _is_ a difference between a key and a command. IOW, we might, for pedagogical reasons, decide to gloss over this distinction in some presentation. That doesn't mean there's no distinction.