From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Concern about new binding. Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 16:28:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo.ref@Ergus> <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_003_SA2PR10MB44744C1AD35A1EC6D8CC752FF3B59SA2PR10MB4474namp_" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22969"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Ergus , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 02 17:58:45 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l6z0m-0005p8-4l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 17:58:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35170 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l6z0l-0004ir-4E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263728 Archived-At: --_003_SA2PR10MB44744C1AD35A1EC6D8CC752FF3B59SA2PR10MB4474namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > In a recent commit I see that the C-x g binding was taken for > revert-buffer. >=20 > I suppose this should have been discussed previously, unless I don't > find the thread... but I have some concerns about this. >=20 > 1) In general `C-x g` is used by magit; I know this is not a priority > (cause magit is an external package), but magit is a very popular > package. >=20 > 2) In some threads before we have discussed that relative short > combinations must be reserved to maps in order to economize them... >=20 > 3) In spite of revert-buffer is a very useful command it is useless in > many conditions like when auto-revert-mode is enable... so maybe it > makes sense to bind it to something longer (ex: C-x g r)?? >=20 > There are more commands that could be set in a map inside C-x g IMHO: > toggle-read-only revert-buffer-with-fine-grain something to > enable/disable font-lock etc >=20 > This way instead of limiting; could open a big spot to set useful > commands. I understand that longer commands are harder to discover, but > hopefully we could have which-key in the next release? >=20 > I hope I am writing this soon enough that the author could consider > revert this change maybe with something more "general" does it makes > sense?? See attached mails, and the thread for bug #46151. I end that second mail saying this: All proposals to sacrifice keys to default bindings should really be discussed on emacs-devel. The first mail reiterates the reasons I oppose this binding. --_003_SA2PR10MB44744C1AD35A1EC6D8CC752FF3B59SA2PR10MB4474namp_ Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: attachment; creation-date="Tue, 02 Feb 2021 16:28:39 GMT"; modification-date="Tue, 02 Feb 2021 16:28:39 GMT" Received: from DS7PR10MB4863.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:297::17) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com with HTTPS; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:17:02 +0000 Received: from SA0PR11CA0162.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:1bb::17) by DS7PR10MB4863.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:297::17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3805.19; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:17:01 +0000 Received: from SN1NAM02FT012.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:1bb:cafe::b0) by SA0PR11CA0162.outlook.office365.com (2603:10b6:806:1bb::17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3805.21 via Frontend Transport; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2E57EF44CDB35A4E9977FD78BE98F405@namprd10.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 > I think a global `revert-buffer' binding is the way to go. How to > reload a file is something that comes up all the time, so I think it is > high time it got bound. I disagree, for reasons given before: 1. Anyone who wants it can bind it. (I do.) 2. It has no meaning for many modes. By its very nature it is essentially mode-specific. 3. Modes where it is useful typically already bind it. And they bind it to a key that makes sense for that particular mode. You just need to use `C-h m' to find out what the key is. 4. Given #3, if you add a global binding for it then there's not much point in those mode-specific bindings. 5. Emacs has been fine for 35+ years without any global binding for it. The "Founders" knew what they were doing in this regard. (Perhaps they were thinking of some of this list.) 6. Emacs should impose a moratorium on itself NOW, to stop binding keys by default. Just say NO. Seriously. The few keys that still have no default global bindings should be left as is, in general - left for users and 3rd-party code. 7. IF many users start using some binding over a period of years THEN Emacs can consider giving it a default binding. Don't be prematurely "optimizing" UI in this way for people when there has been no popular request for it. 8. YAGNI. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4665889552E77C4D82E7A215AD0A1377@namprd10.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 > > I think a global `revert-buffer' binding is the way to go. How to > > reload a file is something that comes up all the time, so I think it > > is high time it got bound. >=20 > Okay, here is a patch. Please don't do this. Don't remove `C-x g' from the little remaining virgin (non-default) key territory. It is not "high time" to bind this or any other key by default. It's high time to _desist_ from having default Emacs taking over more territory. It doesn't need it, and it shouldn't take it. 35 years with no global binding for `revert-buffer'. No problem - thousands of users and hackers. But now, from one user request Lars decides it's "high time"... No need. All proposals to sacrifice keys to default bindings should really be discussed on emacs-devel. --_003_SA2PR10MB44744C1AD35A1EC6D8CC752FF3B59SA2PR10MB4474namp_--