From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:31:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8ed9b43502ae1480e06b@heytings.org> <83r1lohqoc.fsf@gnu.org> <834kiiitxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtwah77h.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7mih1g9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35295"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "bugs@gnu.support" , "gregory@heytings.org" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "ams@gnu.org" , "matt@rfc20.org" , "larsi@gnus.org" , "yuri.v.khan@gmail.com" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 20:38:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAHnN-000941-RV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264426 Archived-At: > > E.g., I see this if I type just `save' to the > > prompt from `lacarte-execute-menu-command': > > > > Buffers > Frames > SAVE > > Buffers > SAVE % > > Do Re Mi > Save Frame Configuration (C-x t .) > > File > Bookmarks > Here (This File/Buffer) > > > Save Bookmarks Here To Bookmark File... (C-x x C-s) > > File > Bookmarks > Save Bookmarks As... (C-x x w) > > File > Bookmarks > Save Bookmarks (C-x x s) > > File > Open Recent > Save list now > > File > Save As... (C-x C-w) > > Icicles > + Remove Saved Candidate Set... > > Icicles > Add/Update Saved Candidate Set... > > Icicles > Save String to Variable... > > Options > Customize Emacs > Saved Options > > Options > Icicles > Toggle > Highlighting Saved Candidates > > Options > Save Frame Configs (DoReMi) > > Options > Save Options > > Options > Save Place in Files between Sessions > > Tools > Spell Checking > Save Dictionary > > > > (That's with substring completion. And some of > > those menus are from my code.) >=20 > How is this different from "M-x save- TAB"? I don't understand the question. The context was being able to efficiently use menus. It's not about opposing use of menus to use of command-names. It's about showing that completion of menus offers the same benefits as completion of command names. This was a response to your statement to the effect that it's not possible to use menus efficiently, particularly to be able to access something anywhere in the entire menu forest (as opposed to within a particular menu). You had said, "That only works well if you can guess, up front, which top-level menu item has the command you are looking for." I tried to show that that's not inherently the case. > > That's a pretty darn quick way to search the entire > > menu-bar forest, to see all menu items whose paths > > contain the word "save". >=20 > The goal was not to search the menus, the goal was to discover > commands. Menus were suggested as a means towards that end. Let's > not confuse the two. Your statement was in reply to this: The discovery scenario is: I don't know what I'm looking for, but I can progressively narrow down the command space by choosing a submenu at each step. Once I've found the command I need, I can execute it right away and be done with it. I read that with found-the-command meaning just getting access to the command. I thought/think Yuri was saying that menus are a good way to discover how to do something. Finding out the name of the command that corresponds to a given menu item is something else. I didn't take that to be what Yuri meant by discovering the command. But that too can be helped with the same or similar tools. For example, with Icicles you can just hit a key to get the command name of any of those menu completion candidates. In fact, you can see their full doc strings in *Help*, on demand while menu-completing. And even without doing that, just by cycling among candidates you can see short help about their commands in the mode line of buffer *Completions*.