From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-l while in menu? Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:54:12 +0300 (IDT) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019743048 27432 127.0.0.1 (25 Apr 2002 13:57:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:57:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: keichwa@gmx.net, rms@gnu.org, gerd@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 170jkW-00078L-00 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:57:28 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 170jmh-0002fE-00 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:59:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 170jkP-0007ci-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:57:21 -0400 Original-Received: from is.elta.co.il ([199.203.121.2]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 170jjZ-0007Vt-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:56:30 -0400 Original-Received: from is (is [199.203.121.2]) by is.elta.co.il (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22523; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:54:12 +0300 (IDT) X-Sender: eliz@is Original-To: "Robert J. Chassell" In-Reply-To: Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3256 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3256 On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Robert J. Chassell wrote: > On the keyboard that I am typing on now, the left hand key labeled > `Ctrl' is to the left of the key labled `Alt', and is in a very > awkward position. No one who uses the key in that position as a > control key will ever like Emacs. That control key position is too > painful. FWIW, I'm using such keyboards for a long time, and I don't have any significant problems. > I can imagine a default binding in which the key to the right of the > space bar operates a menu and the key to the left of the space bar is > meta. On my keyboard both keys are labeled `Alt'. Unfortunately, the right Alt key is used as AltGr on national keyboards (it produces non-ASCII characters and characters which have no keys). So it's not free to be usurped for the menus. But there are 3 more keys on most modern PC keyboards--one is called left Windows key, the other right Windows key, the third one is "Apps". They usually have pictures on them. Do you see them? We could use one of them for the menu. > Sometimes the CONTROL key is labeled CTRL or CTL; at other times it is > labeled differently: often as CAPS LOCK. I think users who read the tutorial (novices, I'd expect) will be tremendously confused by that, since most of them don't have their keys remapped. I also expect that users whose keys are remapped know about that remapping and should have no difficulty understanding what key are we talking about. So I think we should at most add a footnote saying something about the possibility of remapped keys, and that the tutorial assumes that they aren't. Anything else will cause more confusion than there might be now.