From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding use-package to core Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 20:02:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <838rkels13.fsf@gnu.org-NGltIw7----9> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28134"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "xenodasein--- viaEmacs development discussions." , Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com To: John Wiegley Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 13 20:03:13 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ouIG9-00075p-AX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 20:03:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouIFS-0003Xc-0H; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:02:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouIFI-0003XQ-Pg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:02:20 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouIFH-0003tJ-10; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:02:20 -0500 Original-Received: from tutadb.w10.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.10]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01B0106016D; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:02:16 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1668366136; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=wlCTeEptDKJb+vVCn60+puKY51Felf6W4dFJ4GPD2UA=; b=WRuip574i37AcTvz1WkHXaMEf60KUyv+r3eW7ruUozEQ5vcElpLg4ojiBPH8tD7X pIU7xWhjtrt35f78/5i9LubOgQTmqhY85xZyv5E+VYm3mUxW7n630mQPSJmLBfdn0s5 A9EQi/ZZlWy5eYiBuxVwJSFx2Eko8wLdX7s2eDKnrrqZxjuFXFML/okRLuetMivPLCm jK30A4mlJEqPmj082KatXHHAE3SKBKX3Yx2/mZ8dFpoOleMS2dDaXS+aQ+wbMwXzFOv e5vz8IHGWZrdMHQAeyKw/7XVVJRkNxmDM7tNMG86JJTCKWs04RpFyOguz85StpTzg/y mpZtSky4pA== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299749 Archived-At: Nov 13, 2022, 18:46 by johnw@gnu.org: >>>>>> "Edd" =3D=3D Emacs development discussions writes: >>>>>> > > Edd> How integrated is it with custom, package, etc? > > This is exactly the kind of thinking I was hoping for in suggestion the m= ove > to core. Yes, yes and yes! Integration, documentation, the ability for us= ers > to resolve their own issues (for example, making macro expansion easier t= o do > for use-package), these do need more thought and care. > > --=20 > John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80= F > http://newartisans.com> 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA= 2 > Using package.el and custom through their interfaces currently provides the Emacs soft-entry into using packages from outside, use-package provides yet another alternative in between them and manually doing everything.=C2=A0 My understanding is that most people would actually prefe= r solving this without tinkering in init.el but they find custom interface inadequate so they go for the next alternative which is use-package. I think we can bridge that gap somehow.=C2=A0 OTOH, use-package also works great for people who'd like to set things through code, like how JW uses it in their config on GH; for that way of doing things it is in much better shape IMO, stable if you will. Eli: You said this can be fixed, of course but wouldn't it be much easier to do without fighting backwards compatibility issues of core code?