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Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding use-package to core Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:42:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <87tu33cavl.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7144"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Payas Relekar , "xenodasein--- viaEmacs development discussions." , eliz@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 13 19:43:33 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ouHx7-0001fX-Ck for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:43:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouHwT-0006jd-Af; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 13:42:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouHwR-0006jT-W5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 13:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouHwP-0000at-H5; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 13:42:50 -0500 Original-Received: from tutadb.w10.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.10]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC7C1060159; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:42:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1668364967; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=dJQK0fDzmYGPGwiX/VyBGuUZLJE6u/cRocIEI4UPIx0=; b=p6EelB3pj8N3hAbjY8hwr/yWIO27/YkDeRkOsGJxcC9kCDwPMHwniQ7TaOXheTPV Vxnf2MibbB6B08PguLKXyQj7+MBDgxyBN05v0bKDy7EMJQS/hAk7xL/B+3xnBcdJbUf K/legr6y7tmZizi67/QL37q7MUgR1VAFSeC1BHtnGGfZI67M4mt9ryUejCMbv7nswbc Dp+tliUPys2m5DFwGfPxerWOVdJxRQuyaoDrRZNpLFhGFmhGHqlndfGhi2Mm2GOWOUh PhMczoUAQDkDPIaLHs/tq3Zwez778OSU4ONmCoDXWbDEojinVDG7GbZwUPEYl9FEtmN Y3QXx21VZg== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299746 Archived-At: Nov 13, 2022, 18:05 by stefankangas@gmail.com: > Well, of course more people have had the chance to use it. This has > helped build a fairly sizable org-mode community. I see, so significantly more people compared to before became familiar with it when it was included in the default release; how do we know this? If the implication here is that many a users don't get the chance to learn about great packages in the wild, even when they are in ELPA, when these packages are not in the default release; then this is a different problem to address, maybe by including some kind of digest on the state of things like Sascha Chua's site at release would help. > > ... > That's not my experience, FWIW. As a very heavy org-mode user with a > decent number of customizations, I've almost always been more than happy > with the stable version of org-mode shipped with Emacs. Again is there any way we can compare what ratio of its users prefer the on= e in the default release, genuinely asking? I say (if there isn't some nuance I'm not seeing like reaching a much wider audience) it is almost always more preferable to have the chance to M-x package-install the latest (stable or devel) org at will, as this is one of the best features of Emacs, being an interpreter environment itself. > I also can't remember having experienced any issues with installing a > new version of org-mode on top of the built-in one. package.el > certainly has no trouble with it, AFAIK, and if there are any issues > they are merely bugs that should be fixed. True, still it would be better to avoid this wholesale.=C2=A0 Org is a different kind of beast however, so I can't say I'm informed enough to decide if it would be better for it not to be in default release of Emacs.=C2=A0 Best would be to improve the interaction of built-in vs installed business.