From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Default custom file was: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:01:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <871r1k38ym.fsf@gmail.com> <87ee5kmm6t.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6g8m1n1.fsf@gmail.com> <871r1jm4hf.fsf@gmail.com> <8735lupwt1.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27828"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 11 13:10:29 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n7Fyv-00072v-1O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:10:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49932 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7Fyt-00037s-64 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:10:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35344) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7Fpx-0007gH-3u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:01:13 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]:59782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7Fpv-0002UO-BG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:01:12 -0500 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6735A10602DF for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:01:07 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1641902467; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=Ff0KfEf7S2DvMi0+1AaVvD/PibxyZGTk0lbde0cnvjI=; b=2SrLh1XKmDHAUBWxgiVS7dTSftfGCGiLzMLsxwpB0XlrorRsEP4WKgb7QOl7DI5w MZkIYEExdk114cI29sB0nrn24yhGTOgdPRQIeklIidEO5Nsgfrc3PvD5kVo6DfBSMwx n/gnAspXEOYgzJmHTY3LBSmYjrki+XDBnbB1NITGMOBVh8bnX0HQ5Na+LCDKX1iVHVh Q6e6WsSxrhsnUfXJ6eIunLS7OQAmxvGYQEMRykoeZfMNCCmEVzEuGjv/hU5E1W9sCYz LsfV/W5qSfqPQt4493AgW7FkUhKM+asY/a8U01Qh2fCFPCsw7wDniHvq72PoGoXLRkZ 6LqEpSqZmQ== In-Reply-To: <8735lupwt1.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284594 Archived-At: Quoting: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-01/msg00794.ht= ml > ... > At the end of the day, this seems like a non-problem driven by a > belief/ideology that mixing user and auto-generated code is so wrong it > has to be eliminated. If there was evidence of significant adverse > impact to users due to this practice, change would be warranted. > However, as it now stands, I cannot see how such change can be > justified. All arguments against Drew's proposals so far converge at "it is better to do nothing."=C2=A0 Why not propose something even better?=C2=A0 Throwing= "where is your evidence?" around is easy, but one must consider we are far from the domain of scientific method here, or of law.=C2=A0 Is existence of peop= le on Emacs related forums suggesting setting custom-file to /dev/null as a good solution evidence enough?=C2=A0 How about split of early-init/creation of straight.el?=C2=A0 What you call "belief/ideology" is known as intuition= , and it is the primary force behind any successful software.=C2=A0 Or any kind of invention, really.=C2=A0 If only concern is the cost of change, why not produce arguments for how to reduce that cost or to find a way forward?