From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Default custom file was: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:28:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <87mtk8ywye.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6g8yql2.fsf@yahoo.com> <87lezrvyfx.fsf@yahoo.com> <878rvqwosg.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32030"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 08 13:29:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n6Ar7-00086g-3m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2022 13:29:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54314 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6Ar5-00044m-Ig for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2022 07:29:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49132) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6Apy-0003LB-Ps for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2022 07:28:46 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]:35030) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6Apx-0002ur-7N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2022 07:28:46 -0500 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F88D1060163; Sat, 8 Jan 2022 12:28:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1641644922; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=0hbP2+TdRsrO3dLT98YVwhk47jIJuii4Ir9Lg8AHtoM=; b=xfksfKzPkODIqeKFXENl6xK7fEnSAxQf+WC+/MFj4k9sVyqYeHpdD68TONNExDrp oq7DuINTGmPAMMK0bFPrUryQ0kfHUp/pQ6X4/jDqTJcqv1pVKa4sZXXSRCapqzB+BoI c0GxTAgAdbH9f3pMLJ1rWobqZxX0NsZmQ7xOrJfreloseFerj0dpo443BqM6Z869QNo AJyNS8hTWj0zLgdwub00nCMqamuxyeAVIV6qsJ4mefvGmP/vwMtRo7/fHhxV/nV/glr J989+ZeFpw+k1gT5xzPsFsc3JD9WNz3uH/aCcbXW8ZXGXquJOc3drcEDZsQK2jm7P7t kCPGtJ5dXQ== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284456 Archived-At: Jan 8, 2022, 14:42 by tomas@tuxteam.de: > On Sat, Jan 08, 2022 at 11:39:04AM +0100, xenodasein--- via Emacs develop= ment discussions. wrote: > >> writes: >> > > [...] > >> >> You are overlooking something important: our community is (compared t= o >> >> others) pretty civilised [...] >> >> I wouldn't call, opposing to setting a handful of variables every >> couple of years to disable new developments and instead stagnating >> your favorite libre editor into oblivion, civilized. >> >> If it is that painful to make Customize use its own data file, what >> hope would there be to make big improvements to it? >> > > I may very well be wrong (this is not a rhethoric device, but just age: > I've been wrong more times than I can count!), but I perceive your > position as extreme. > > The opposition is not there "to disable new developments". It's usually > there because some people (it's not /always the same/ people!) don't > like a change. > > Surely some discussion is in order to either convince those people or to > redesign the change in a way that it hopefully makes people happy? > > Cheers > --=20 > t > Agreed, I came out as too extreme as to where things are, but I believe things are at least leaning that way. Discussion is great, especially when opinions are more amenable to movement.=C2=A0 We must know how much inconvenience to users is too much and adjust, as we can't avoid it completely.=C2=A0 Freedom always comes at a cost, and that cost is involvement. Cheers.