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Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 10:22:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <897ED591-43BC-4029-912A-917E5E9F6930@gmail.com> <87czlarhff.fsf@yahoo.com> <5D13C3C0-C4EB-4769-9685-25122DC9B8DC@gmail.com> <875yr2rfd1.fsf@yahoo.com> <369E183D-87EC-45AB-8352-9A780006561E@gmail.com> <87zgoeps3f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgoeo91m.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23544"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 02 10:23:38 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n3x5W-0005z8-EN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2022 10:23:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55690 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3x5V-0005qr-56 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2022 04:23:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50574) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3x4k-0005B4-Kd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2022 04:22:50 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]:45938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3x4i-0001cs-U1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2022 04:22:50 -0500 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44EBB1060271 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2022 09:22:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1641115367; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=WbDGrZyIBuIeHtMPanlY/wlwIwciM9Mz0DzBEQcU1Wk=; b=yTfdx1ptDDH/SkonORNOHsO/tzLC/23Jg9Zw9k5UNek0c5iPgVvlNdsNRfvKkaMX zUS1Wg/XTKNqOz+Zmr7ZnFsSIcSB3nzCL47EiltIrAsWeECunEc80F4NBGrz1k3uHsM pdb8lzAdfr/4hbKi68/150YOXm35wuIK6TxkMuQMITZjYrg6BLn/l8wozCQQEkkOuSs oujNcb8qqt0ek+q7OsS5qB7oBUooMOCixQq2lvKZrvMYX1f2gqNXBd29h1e7GYi1Y6n vkTloPMFKU7ajAQ3zRH4DZML4n3Zj4NjilV/6UYz6P/y2/NsKQBZSJlVNlB59zSNCWA lJrY9/PZpg== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283871 Archived-At: Jan 2, 2022, 12:07 by casouri@gmail.com: > Maybe that=E2=80=99s true for some users. I had my fair share of struggle= and confusion with custom when I started using Emacs. IME a few lines of s= etq, global-set-key and xxx-mode are simpler and more predicable than custo= m. Neither of us has surveyed enough number of new Emacs users, so I don=E2= =80=99t think we can make definitive claims. For example, I don=E2=80=99t t= hink it is unacceptable to expect a user to understand what does setq, glob= al-set-key or xxx-mode means. > ... > It is hard for the user to find them. Plus other problems with custom and= Customize described above that you don=E2=80=99t seem to mind. Aren=E2=80= =99t they confusing for even a not-so-new user? They surely confused and an= noyed me for a long time back then. > > Yuan > 1+ This has also been my experience when starting out and for some others I kn= ow.=20 In theory Custom system should have made things easier, but it didn't. Later on when I understood Elisp better, I had some ideas as to why.=C2=A0 = Basically Custom is an unfinished system, it's code is not easy to understand, and it does not integrate with the rest of Emacs well, it especially does not play= well with configuring things from init.el file.=C2=A0 Until it is more polished,= I would be hesitant to recommended it to newcomers, over doing a couple of setq's.