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Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Development Speed Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 16:51:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: <87v8zk5d7t.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32734"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs Devel To: Stefan Monnier , Larsi Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 20 18:20:39 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mzML1-0008F2-7A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:20:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49454 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzMKy-0000Mq-VV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 12:20:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzKxG-0002Pq-92 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 10:52:02 -0500 Original-Received: from w1.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.162]:60788) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzKxD-0004mQ-F5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 10:52:01 -0500 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w1.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F2FCFBF52D; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 15:51:57 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1640015517; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=BAhbbTx98fJD0awgyQGbzpeJURugzuA+Eic7kSx2/3M=; b=n92ej3rXB9+5a2OalrmTH0kYDNSGZaJMNLljWQn5vWR9PPOPSdvBHJSDjP+Mzxj/ K4VFyJnZOa98BsjXnaVeSadq1gf311VP3BxaWlsATDw1pmmoXKiAD1X0Xuk34AJRNWg lU67SlmQwftplLNxQ5/rc0YGHdAqYX3cXiwMcQXm2ILG/TsPh2yjlAovIHKlXC3ktwa r2xIBMZGl+LEBN4Uo5iVk+owOhAvnbRzSNrAVKx3iRF6jgfDgH5ZYueuAsVI8tYnjym lGEDm2gMdJg8m+ISop4apJdqZdVOI75xe+Pz3BWthViFm5/sFH1AEtm7/NDp7fZLLTG vRbDenzPiw== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.162; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w1.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282518 Archived-At: Quoting: list-was-down? From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Date: - > Yes, I don't think that's accurate. (But it's certainly the impression > you get when reading emacs-devel, so it's understandable why you'd think > so.) > There's an enormous amount of maintenance work going on in Emacs > development. I have indeed read the 10% series, and the monumental effort speaks for itself. I also see commits from lots of people fixing and tidying things up everyday, it's great. My sincere thanks as an Emacs user. I only know of the communication through lists.gnu.org and the TODO file and I missed any large scale, coordinated plans to structural changes. I do not mean to say those must exist; but to merely inquire whether there should be any such, or if they exist or are they documented and can be accessed without directly requesting comments. Quoting: list-was-down? From: Stefan Monnier Date: - > Regarding paying technical debt, we could do a lot more of it, indeed, > but it takes time and effort and is hard to do without introducing > backward incompatible changes. > More importantly, we can't force people to do it. > This said, I think a lot of the work Emacs maintainers do (as opposed > to developers of 3rd party packages) is indeed just that. It's just > that some of our debt are "too hard to tackle", so we focus on the > smaller things instead :-( This is exactly what I thought I understood about the situation, feels good to have been able to send at least some thoughts through, from all my gibberish :) > ... > If it can lead to cleaner code and/or better errors&warnings, I'm all > for it, but I don't expect performance improvements to come from > the compiler. I see, that makes sense. Thanks. > I suggest you choose your words more carefully: "excuse" above implies > you think we lie, which doesn't seem like a good starting point for an > honest and constructive conversation. That wasn't my intention at all, apologies for any offense by mistake. I am aware of my need of tone tuning; second language problems. I welcome tips like this, please don't refrain.