From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:37:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87r70l2xza.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153154395 22982 80.91.229.2 (17 Jul 2006 16:39:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:39:55 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 17 18:39:54 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2W8A-0001Dc-E2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:39:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2W89-0004cA-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:39:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2W6m-0003ws-ST for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:38:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2W6l-0003w2-JH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:38:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2W6l-0003vz-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:38:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2W9S-0003Kx-Kk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:40:58 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k6HBQCbt032370 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: from dradams-lap.us.oracle.com by rcsmt251.oracle.com with ESMTP id 1573570911153154279; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:37:59 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <87r70l2xza.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57196 Archived-At: > Newbies are overwhelmingly used to using a mouse. Let them do > that while they get the basics of Info. Once they're used to it, they're less likely to change. They're already used to it - there are no more virgin users. > Save the teaching of why it's better to learn to use the keyboard > for later. When it will be too late for many. If indeed it is better to use the keyboard (and I think it is), it seems a bad idea to begin by teaching bad habits, however easy these habits may be. I'm not suggesting we teach them *any* way to perform simple navigation (equivalent of `n' and `p'). On the contrary, my point was that we *need not* teach that. There is an obvious, simple way to navigate: click a link or navigation button. No need to teach that. If you like, later in the tutorial we can teach quicker ways to navigate ("shortcuts"). I'm not worried about the risk that users will never learn to use `n' instead of clicking the `Next' button. You are, apparently. Info is a browser for finding and reading manuals. The argument for keyboard shortcuts is vastly overstated when it comes to browsing (vs editing).